Unique Ferrari Hardware needed

airsanford · Post by **airsanford** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:10 pm

Chris Coios · Post by **Chris Coios** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:06 pm

For a good reference on metric hardware, with fully dimensioned drawings and design standard references, try to get a Bossard catalog. The Bossard Group (a Swiss company with distributors in the US) puts out this very thick and extensive print catalog (book) of hardware covering most ranges available. It includes detail illustrations with all the dimensions, not just length. Great for checking fastener head sizes. The old catalogs were fantastic and very hard to get, unless a sales person gave you one. Some years ago, I walked into a local metric hardware supplier with my old copy in hand and the counter guy's eyes opened wide "Where did you get that?!" The current one is not quite as thorough, easier to get, you can order it/buy it. Order the print catalog, not the smaller excerpt. Not cheap, probably $100 these days. www.bossard.com

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:28 pm

The site says the book covers 50,000 items! I guess that is good, but $100 (plus $20 or so for the supplement) is pretty hefty. The problem I have with these online retailers is they usually have a minimum order. In this case, I only need 4. Of course, if they are cheap enough, you can buy 20, or whatever the minimum is, but these things add up.

Chris Coios · Post by **Chris Coios** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:25 am

The value is in the technical and extensive dimensional information of the catalog, not necessarily the purchasing venue. Agreed that Bossard is an industrial supplier, not a small quantity retailer. Metric supply at hardware stores is much improved, but still not a source for the odd stuff. Best is to find a specialty metric hardware supplier in your metropolitan area with counter service. It helps to have done your homework to know the engineering standard and size designation needed when you walk in the door. "I need 12 bolts, partially threaded DIN 931, Grade 8.8, M10 x 80 mm, black oxide." You will get better and more patient service and avoid being deemed a nuisance. On occasion you will have no choice but to order quantity to get a match to unusual size or fastener not normally stocked. Some sizes used on early Ferraris are simply not available. If the size is not in the Bossard catalog, chances are it no longer exists new and you have get a close match or make/modify a fastener. The same approach goes for matching bearings at a bearing supplier. A cross reference bearing list is nice to have.

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:29 am

Ok, hopefully I am not beating a small, dead horse, but I have continued on the quest for the perfect door latch screw. Yale, you might want to get involved here. It might be fun to try something cheap for once!

Anyway, aided by my daughter who needs driving experience, I set out to check some of the sites you guys recommended. First stop was Avalon Tru Value Hardware, the store in Redondo Beach that Andrew spoke of. The closest they had sported a head diameter of 11.1 mm, a bit smaller than the 13.9 of the original. The head also tapered all the way to the threads, instead of flattening after a couple of mms. Please ignore the bolts, they are there to keep the screws from rolling away while I take the photo.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>
(Click to enlarge)

We bought a couple of these and had a great time looking (and finding) some of the normal shaped hardware I needed. It was then off to Ace Hardware, who clearly had a larger selection, but still could not match what I was looking for. A quick trip to Pep Boys was a total waste of time. I could not convince my daughter to take me to San Diego to try Ababa (or whatever Zac recommended), so that trip will have to wait a couple of weeks.

The screw we found definitely holds better than the pan head screws I was using before and look better; though not as good as the original (the screw on the right in the photo below). I will use these for now, but keep up the search.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

Those of you that know my car, know that I have much more serious issues than this screw. I am still working on them, but now I won't get frustrated with a stuck door. However, I still feel that this screw must be available somewhere. Chris - can you find it in your book? Perhaps if I had a name for the head, I could call before hitting the road. Then, when I find the store that actually carries this stuff, perhaps they will be able to fill the rest of my list!

Keep your suggestions coming.

Michael Bayer · Post by **Michael Bayer** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:51 am

For what its worth, those originals look very different than what are in my 330GT and 365GTC/4

Rudy van Daalen Wetters · Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:04 pm

I believe it is called a "Flathead" type screw. More rounded would be called "Oval" head.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

Post by **tyang** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:15 pm

I believe it is called a "Flathead" type screw. More rounded would be called "Oval" head.

It is a flat head machine screw, it's just the head is a lot wider than what is commonly available today.

Tom

Chris Coios · Post by **Chris Coios** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:16 pm

Sorry Tom, nothing listed for a flat head with a broad shoulder. Time to find a friendly machinist...... may have been purpose made in the first place? Chris

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:37 pm

I think I have a lot of more important things to spend my money on than custom made screws! Now watch, come the 2015 Pebble Beach Concours, I'll be eating my words...

So is that how the John Shirley's of the world do it? Custom make their own screws? I can't imagine what that would cost. Though compared to the worth of his cars, maybe it is a reasonable investment.

I may also talk to someone parting a GTE and see if I can get some whose heads are not as stripped as mine.

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:41 pm

Michael - When you say my originals look different than yours, do you mean the screw or the strike plate or both? I can see the 365 being different, as it was made much later. However, I would have assumed the 330 would be similar as it was made the year after mine and the door style is similar.

Post by **tyang** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:16 am

So is that how the John Shirley's of the world do it? Custom make their own screws? I can't imagine what that would cost. Though compared to the worth of his cars, maybe it is a reasonable investment.

They probably do make their own screws. The question is how do we "po' folk" get them to sell us a couple from the batch of 50 they made up!?

Tom

Michael Bayer · Post by **Michael Bayer** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 am

Tom I was referring to the door screws, the 330GT and the 365C4 have the same, the strikers and plates of course are different, both are very soft, thus the stripped heads, does anyone know if this some safety issue, or designed to shear? M

Chris Coios · Post by **Chris Coios** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

Tom,

While it may seem a luxury, restorers do need to make special hardware in the process of restoration, especially if the application is unique and a substitute will not do at all. Take the example of the door strike in your photo with the original broad head shouldered screw compared to the common flat head. The common screw is barely capturing the beveled seat (which takes the lateral load) of the hole in the strike. While the common fastener is perfectly adequate to hold the strike on, it may prove to be a poor short term solution. Every time the door is closed, the side force of the latch hitting the strike may move the plate a small amount because there is so little overlap onto the bevel. Soon, rapid wear may loosen the plate. Do try to find screws from another parted car. Those strikes are not inexpensive.

Chris

TOMKIZER · Post by **TOMKIZER** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:23 pm

Making new screws doesn't seem all that difficult to me. Since M6 x 1.0 flat head screw heads are too small, try buying a long M8 or M10 (any thread) stainless screw (choose any screw that will be longer than what you need and that has the right head). Chuck it up, turn down the thread part to remove the thread and get the diameter to the correct diameter for an M6 screw thread of the length you need. Cut off the remaining thread (the part that was chucked up) to get it to the right length, and then using a good Phillips head screwdriver to turn the screw in a tap, retap the thread to M6 x 1.0. It's not even necessary to use a lathe. Just clamp a hand drill in a vise or clamp it to a table and use a file to turn down the threads in the area of the length you need. The stainless should be soft enough to work easily. Hardened screws would probably be a pain in the butt.
On the other hand, maybe I have a tendency to give up looking for parts too quickly and make them myself. My problem is that I live far from any decent parts stores, especially specialty parts stores.
Good Luck!
Tom Kizer