Water Manifold

[tyang]

I think TiG is the best technique for this kind of application. Better welds insure a leak free pipe.

Tom

[John Vardanian]

I'd agree, Tom, but I have just a MIG welder for the time being. Maybe this will justify a new toy ; )

john

[kare]

Germans call stainless steel Edelstahl because it has many properties of noble metals. The real world outside my window has teached me that careless use of stainless can cause you many surprices in wet systems that cannot always be explain by the reactions explained your chemist/physics book they gave you in school as a kid. There are many stainless pieces covered in THICK paint in the industrial systems, let me tell you! With an engine the nasty thing is that it isn't sea water, so the eventual processes may not kick in fast or immeaditely. The price of cast engine components makes it critical. With 1000 uncontrolled variables in that system (components in the cooling liquid, ever chancing temperatures, random electrical currents in and around the engine + huge potentials imported in eventual welding, the material used for those 50 year old parts and their current status... etc ad infinitum) I would think twice before putting in a material with a high electropotential just because you think it'll save somebody the bother of needing to replace that tube again sometime when you're already dead anyway. If you go and ask another metallurgist he might say that this is all nonsense, but is he going to pay for your engine when something goes wrong? It sort of belongs to the concept of being an expert that he isn't going to pay you a single penny. For me stainless pipes are for Chevy engines used at sea. I wouldn't much worry when new thermostat housing costs $15 and clicking a "buy it now" -button for a brand new replacement engine is $1595.

Waterline corrosion has little to do with this. It is true, however, that if you hang a steel sheet so that half of it is under the water, it will rust into two pieces breaking at waterline.

Best wishes, Kare

[330Jim]

Gas, mig or tig, I think any one can do a fine job of it. Mig is the most likely to put a lot of filler material on it so it will take more time to file or gind it down. The welds are pretty short so you are not talking about a lot of work to grind the Mig. Brazing will also work, but once you braze it you can not go back and weld it. I suggested brazing for the threaded fitting simply because it would not damage the part and therefore makes it the easiest to salvage the fitting if you get it almost done and then mess it up and have to redo it. With brazing you can heat the fitting up melting the braze and salvaging the fitting. Personally I would gas weld the three sheet metal pieces together (because that is what I am most comfortable with on sheet metal) and then braze the fitting on. I would also be tempted to braze the finished assy to the existing water pipe, braze tends to leave a nice radius in the fillet. If you do braze the assembly to the the tube, wrap a wet paper towel around the brazed on fitting to prevent over heating that joint.

Cheers Jim

[John Vardanian]

Cool. Thanks Jim. I am off to buy myself a gas set-up.

Kare, I learned things about stainless steel application that I did not know. Thanks.

john

[250GT]

Germans call stainless steel Edelstahl because it has many properties of noble metals. The real world outside my window has teached me that careless use of stainless can cause you many surprices in wet systems that cannot always be explain by the reactions explained your chemist/physics book they gave you in school as a kid. There are many stainless pieces covered in THICK paint in the industrial systems, let me tell you! With an engine the nasty thing is that it isn't sea water, so the eventual processes may not kick in fast or immeaditely. The price of cast engine components makes it critical. With 1000 uncontrolled variables in that system (components in the cooling liquid, ever chancing temperatures, random electrical currents in and around the engine + huge potentials imported in eventual welding, the material used for those 50 year old parts and their current status... etc ad infinitum) I would think twice before putting in a material with a high electropotential just because you think it'll save somebody the bother of needing to replace that tube again sometime when you're already dead anyway. If you go and ask another metallurgist he might say that this is all nonsense, but is he going to pay for your engine when something goes wrong? It sort of belongs to the concept of being an expert that he isn't going to pay you a single penny. For me stainless pipes are for Chevy engines used at sea. I wouldn't much worry when new thermostat housing costs $15 and clicking a "buy it now" -button for a brand new replacement engine is $1595.

Waterline corrosion has little to do with this. It is true, however, that if you hang a steel sheet so that half of it is under the water, it will rust into two pieces breaking at waterline.

Well I cold say AMEN to this theoretical lesson Kare,
but Ferrari NEVER EVER fixate two differant metal parts togeter so that an galvano element can occur.
Johns manifols is compleetly surrounded by rubber parts.
So IMO you can made every water pipe in RVS without problems.
Pic below shows: waterpipe 51 years old without rust the WASHER is still visible.
hope this help
C.
other pic shows Johns org n.o.s pipe inside not welded

[John Vardanian]

Cornelis, true, there is no metal-to-metal contact between the manifold and the engine, but you are forgetting one undisputable fact-- water is an excellent conductor of electrical current.

john

[treue]

Kare,

If stainless steel is undesirable for this application, then, what material would you suggest? Why?

Tom

[kare]

Why not mild steel as per original?

[250GT]

Cornelis, true, there is no metal-to-metal contact between the manifold and the engine, but you are forgetting one undisputable fact-- water is an excellent conductor of electrical current.

john

John,
Please explain me how you electical current is produced.
the free circulating Cu(radiator),Fe(pipes),Al (engine-)-ions are all positive, and will try to find a negative ion to connect,
but no current here .
this is all theoretical BS believe me.
youre water pipe is gone through emptyness with is necesarry for expansion
we do not have a closed circuit in our old cars.
Best
C.

[250GT]

Well back to self produced waterpipes,
I made two pipes for about 10 years- one as spare- for a inside plug engine.
these are rather simple and are straight with only two curves.
the result optical is rather good and satifying.
I only do have allways one problem when I am producing something.
Compare to a n.o.s leftcam driven mech Fispa fuelpump factory manifold it is ONLY 5,2Kg heavier.
to use the second spare Manifold ,I must became in the age of Methusalem.
Well some self irony can not harm.
so I prefere to buy n.o.s or prof. produced ones now.
but if you have lots of time, why not do it you self.
no one can see these mistakes.
satisfaction pure.

Best
Some pics as always

C.

[John Vardanian]

Hi Cornelis, the 128F engine water manifold is much like the ones you have reprodued. It is easier to replicate because there is no "bell" involved. You've done a good job, BTW.

Sorry, I cannot argue electrolysis further with you, I just don't know enough.

john