Why bodywork and paint is expensive

Keith Milne · Post by **Keith Milne** » Tue May 17, 2005 5:31 pm

I've been following the discussion on the topic of paint and bodywork in this forum and thought I would offer a visual of the process. Please visit www.legacymotorsport.com (follow the link to the 330 project). On this site, I have detailed the body restoration process on my 330GT. Out of over 100 photographs taken, I distilled it down to a few to make the point. I can assure you the final bill far exceeded the cost of the car. (I especially like David Booth's "choke a horse" comment.) To date, the car is mostly assembled with the exception of the interior. I am still sorting out some mechanical and electrical issues before I tackle the upholstery. This is a textbook example of being in over one's head (as in underwater) in a restoration.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Wed May 18, 2005 9:59 am

Wow. Your car is going to be absolutely stunning when it's done. I really love the grigio fumo color. Bruce Terry at Specialty Metal Fabrication looks like he really knows what he's doing, judging from the results of the hood.

I hope you'll feel that all the work that has been done, and all the metal structure that has been repaired or replaced, will be worth the expense!

By the way, I don't think that Michael Sheehan's article on why Ferraris cost more to paint than an equivelent Mercedes takes into consideration that thorough of a restoration. Almost any car in a similar condition that doesn't have reproduction panels available will take a similar amount of work.

What color will the uphostery be, Keith?

David Booth · Post by **David Booth** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:07 am

Wow - the similarities continue between Keith's car and my SII cab. Not only were we at a similar point early in this process at very much the same time last year and therefore in the unique position to be able to discuss the relative merits of different kinds of paint stripper, but:

A) the amount of rust and the damage it caused in my car was very similar to his, requiring I'm sure similar amounts of time, energy and cash, and
B) the finished color of my car is also Grigio Fumo - its original color. My car still has the original black upholstery panels, although the seats were redone accurately but in vinyl at some point, and the original wine-colored carpets are there as well - many of them good enough to be re-used in a pinch.

I personally think the vintage Pininfarina bodies look their best in the darker colors, and the gray paint, black leather, chrome trim and the rugs make a really elegant combination.

The door skins on my car had an odd "pregnant" bulge to them for no apparent reason (steel rather than the more common aluminum on the cabs); the angled subframe area that makes the front anchor for the rocker area just behind the front wheel could basically be crumbled with your fingers; and there was rust under the 44-year-old lead in the complex contours of the bodywork. Yikes.

And as if that wasn't enough, I added a little more pain to the project during the stripping process by getting carried away with a cool pneumatic tool from Snap-On called a Crud Thug. Go to Snap-On's site and check this thing out. You'd be hard-pressed to put it down once you see what it will do, too.

But you definitely want to keep a Crud Thug FAR away from aluminum bodywork - trust me. The bare hood and decklid looked okay to the naked eye, but once a guide coat of paint was on, and they were being mated back to the rest of the car, I discoverd my cool little toy had cost me hundreds (and hundreds) of dollars in hammer-and-dolly work to unwarp the panels.

Gooey undercoat on heavy steel chassis tubes - that's one thing. Aluminum body panels - don't do it.

Anyone want a recommendation on stripper - Keith or I can help you out.

Keith Milne · Post by **Keith Milne** » Thu May 19, 2005 1:21 am

Ah yes - stripper. It took a GALLON of the strongest aircraft stripper I could find to get that metallized crap off the hood. And it still wasn't enough.

Matt - I still have not been able to find a close enough match to the original leather color which is close to the Mercedes saddle color - and I've looked everywhere. Sort of an orange-brown. Its really quite striking against the grey. I may end up having hides dyed to match. Suggestions on that color anyone?

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:15 am

Keith,

I needed to make a repair in my Connelly leather, and got a half hide from Bill Hirsch Automotive. Here's a chart of the colors available.
http://www.hirschauto.com/samples/conleath.htm
Although real Connelly isn't available any more, this stuff is very nice match. They also have Mercedes leather available in more limited colors.

--Matt

william · Post by **william** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:17 am

For a orange/tan color call Bill Hurst Automotive 1-800-828-2061. Beautiful colors of leather. Have them send you some samples. ask for the color pecan beautiful orange/tan color.

William

Keith Milne · Post by **Keith Milne** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:54 am

Thanks guys - Hirsch was one of the first places I contacted. Close, but not close enough.

Post by **tyang** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:28 pm

Hi Keith,

Great job! After all this, you may own the nicest Series I 330 in the country!

Frank, my upholsterer, was restoring a 400 Superamerica with the color you're describing when Connolly went into receivership, and I think he found a good source. I'll give him a call and see if he has any scraps left for you to see if it will work for you. Call me next week to remind me if I don't hear from him.

Tom

JonBrent · Post by **JonBrent** » Sun May 22, 2005 8:51 pm

Kieth, your car looks GREAT.

For stripper, I'm hoping to get the job done using Jasco and/or the POR15 stripper. Any other suggestions I could order from say Aircraft Spruce?

Should I worry about this stuff dripping into the seams and lifting the new paint later?

Cheers,
Jon

Keith Milne · Post by **Keith Milne** » Sun May 22, 2005 9:27 pm

Jon,

The POR stripper should be fine. To be honest, I can't remember the exact brand I used - but got it from my local bodyshop supplier. It is caustic sutff to say the least. You must be EXTREMELY careful of crevices and other hidden areas. The stripper must be completely removed and neutralized or you will have problems later.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:41 am

I think that the "metallized crap" on Keith's hood was probably a filler called "All Metal." It's very difficult to remove. Hopefully, Jon, you won't face the same stuff.

Eastwood makes a stipper that's really benign and decently effective. It called DeKote and can be found at www.eastwoodco.com.

David Booth · Post by **David Booth** » Mon May 23, 2005 9:53 pm

The stripper I used was tried-and-true Aircraft Remover. Kind of a funny name, but it's the stuff that's been around a long time. Brush on a heavy coat - ONE direction only - don't brush back and forth. Wait 20 minutes or so and start scraping. Work with a smallish area, you don't want it to dry before you can scrape it off.

The toughest stuff to remove was the various breeds of body filler - some probably from Pininfarina and some doubtlessly from more recent abuse. I think I wound up with a 5-gallon paint bucket full of the dried scrapings, which was then consigned to our company's hazardous waste hauler for safe disposal. Heavy neoprene (chemical resistant) gloves, lots of cheap, disposable brushes, safety glasses, respirator (not just a dust mask) and a really well ventilated work area are all important to the process as well. Still sure you want to tackle this nasty job?

JonBrent · Post by **JonBrent** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:27 pm

Thanks for the advise guys - yes, I'll give it a go with the hood & trunk first, and see if I have any patience left after that! My trunk feels like it has 50lbs of filler on it, and its at least a 1/4 inch of filler at the latch hole. Should be fun.

512boxer · Post by **512boxer** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:16 am

Ferrari does love filler thats for sure, I recently had my Boxer painted and was suprised the thickness and amount of filler everywhere, seems they hand hammer the panels to a decent rough condition and use the filler to make everything smooth and fit nice.You'll probably find interesting things underneath the filler but nothing a good bodyman can't improve upon the factory work or the not so great previous small dent repairs by bodyshops in the cars past life.

The stripper is nasty stuff and has potential to cause havoc in hidden spots if it gets in there, you might look into media blasting also such as shell and bead.

erik330 · Post by **erik330** » Tue May 31, 2005 2:36 pm

Lovely stuff. I have about the same amount of work coming up. One thing your photos have convinced me of is that my car was NOToriginally grigio fumo as believed. The color on your car looks like a dark silver/gray. My car was what I would call "Battleship Gray." Somewhat lighter and more grayish than silver.

Any thoughts as to what it might have been called originally?

Again, beautiful work.