Need help on 330GT2+2 #07369

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Mike Theo
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Need help on 330GT2+2 #07369

Post by Mike Theo »

I'm looking at 330GT2+2 #07369 as a possible next project. It is a 1964 four headlight 330 GT. Supposedly it is a recent "barn-find". Can any of you folks give me some insight on this car, or point me in the right direction. Seems like a neat car. It looks complete, but definitely needs some attention. Asking price is $21,500.

Thanks in advance,

Mike Theo
1963 250 GT/E #4573
JonBrent
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It would make a great project!

Post by JonBrent »

Hi Mike,

Neat car is right - deja vue for me! First off, Kerry's database has it as an interim (ie 4 headlight, 5 speed), which makes it that much better if you like the four headlight 330 style as I do. The dash is the proper layout for a Series 1, although it's the first time I've seen a 'short' console like that. The mileage listed jumps around, which is odd for a car which has sat for 15 years, you might want to ask about that.

Curiously, it also has bumperettes both front and rear, which is very interesting as I have always thought my interim (7537) had the wrong bumper up front due to a minor crash. So I would look for damage at both ends - but there may be none, as Ferrari has that reputation for inconsistancy even in the more numerous cars, or perhaps the connection brackets rusted away.

The price is always the fun part - if it really has sat for a long time I would expect to have to do lots to make it safe again, but it is all doable, just takes time and money. That's what I paid for mine, but what did I know!

Are there any engine pictures?

Jon
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treue
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Post by treue »

Mike:

The price of this car indicates to me that it needs a lot of work. I got 9129 for $28000 because it had a dropped valve, not because the previous owner wanted to see it go to a good, but impoverished, home. I went into the purchase knowing that I would have to put a certain combination of work and money into the project to make it come out as I desired. I actually look forward to the work that I know I will have to do on the car. I did this with 82 308, S/N 41395. I would imagine that you have acquired a lot of maintenance and restoration experience with your 250GTE. If I were buying a concours-winning 250GTO for $8 million, I would expect perfection and would hire an expert to thoroughly inspect it before purchase. With 9129, I knew it had problems, I was familiar with the previous owner and had about 20 pictures of it from the internet, so I bought it without inspection. It actually turned out better than I had expected. For me, it is a win-win situation: I get a neat car plus the enjoyment (most of the time) of working on it. This may not be your situation, though. I hope this helps.

Tom (Treue)
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tyang
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Post by tyang »

Hi Mike,

I would agree with Tom (Treue) when it comes to price. It probably needs a ton of work. This doesn't necessarily mean to abandon this project, but just be aware of the consequences. These 2+2 cars have a ton of parts that are useable for other Ferraris of that vintage, so the sellers always have the option of parting the car out if they don't get the money they want for the car as a whole. Rebuildable engines can sell for $10-15K. I know the previous owner of Tom's car considered parting the car out too, but luckily Tom decided to preserve this car in one piece.

I hope this car gets saved from getting parted out. There's only a limited number of old Ferraris, and it's sad to see another one on the verge of oblivion!

Tom
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330GT
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Post by 330GT »

Lots of potential problems, particularly since they just got the engine working.

This car either needs to go to a mechanic who can do his own work with the thought that they may only have a car worth the original price and parts costs when done or be a donor car for a SWB or 330 GTO replica. I don't think that someone expecting to hire a mechanic will ever break even.

One might get lucky and not have to rebuild a major part, but if you do, it will have to be a labor of love as you won't be being paid for your time.
Mike Theo
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Thanks for the insight, and please keep it coming...

Post by Mike Theo »

Ah there in lies the rub.

I'm not stock market, or Ferrari market whiz, but it sure seems to me that the market for these cars (Vintage front-engine, V12 2+2's) has to be at about the bottom right now, at least in 2003 dollars anyway.

So, when is it worth it to roll the dice on a car like this, knowing that even if you are wrong about a major component, it will still be worth more in 2, 3 or 5 years? Isn't it just a waiting, or staying-power game? It sure seems to me, to use stock market terms, that these cars are severely undervalued for what they are. Especially since the "rank and file" out there don't yet realize that they are strong, hardy and reliable, in addition to being rare and beautiful. The fact that someone could part-out a car like this and still get $20K tells me that the market just hasn't figured out that an original, complete, one-owner V12 Ferrari is a car very much worth having.

I know that I am preaching to the choir here, but help me understand what I may be missing. Just seems like, if you can afford to wait, you can't lose.

Tom, thanks again for the site. As I have said privately to other forum members, one of the best things about loving and working with these vintage V12 cars, is the people. I'm not sure what happens, but as a rule in the Ferrari world anyway, things unfortunately get decidedly "stuffier" as both the vintage decreases, and the price tag increases. There are always exceptions to the rule, but in any event, you have created a very comfortable and valuable place here.

Regards,

Mike
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treue
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Post by treue »

Mike:

I just looked at the Average Asking Price for this car in the Ferrari Market Letter: $40,033, an 11% increase over six months ago. Could you bring your car up to average condition for less than $18, 533 (not including the discount you would probably have to give when you sell it)? The point that Tom Yang and I are trying to make is that it is unlikely that his car (5053), your car (7369), or my car (9129) can be made into profit-making or even breaking-even ventures. There is just too much work and expense needed for that to happen. If this were the early nineties and you had bought 7369 for $21,500, you could probably make a bunch, but not right now. Maybe we're headed for a boom in the Ferrari market in the near future, but I would guess not. Tom and I and probably most other visitors to this site just love Ferraris and don't mind buying the cheaper models and bringing them up to near-concours level without hope of making a killing if and when resale time comes around. I bought a lower-priced '82 European 308, worked on it for four years and sold it for about $4,000 more than I paid for it but I had put $6 to 8,000 into it, not counting labor, but making a profit of any size on it had never been my goal. If you have a mechanical talent and love Ferraris, go for it; if you are trying to make a profit, forget it.

Tom (Treue)
Mike Theo
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Love vs. $$$

Post by Mike Theo »

Tom,

Please don't misunderstand. I am in this for the love of the cars. My questions are more motivated out of a sense that regardless of the love, it logically should start to make financial sense to buy/invest in these cars also. In other words, it would be nice going in knowing that regardless of whether the car checks out perfectly, or whether it needs a complete top or bottom-end, or both, that it is still a sound move money-wise if you buy it now with the current market where it is. My point is that even if it is still too early, which in this economy it appears to be, logic says that the market will eventually rebound, even if does not soar again, making a 2+2 purchased now, a great idea.

Sorry for the convolutions, but I think that we actually agree.

(Can you tell that I'm really just trying to talk myself into this car?!) Help me out here!

Later,

Mike
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tyang
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Post by tyang »

Hi Guys,

Don't think Mike is missing anything here when it comes to buying this car if he buys wisely. If no major pieces are missing that will cost a fortune to replace, and if nothing is terribly broken, he won't loose his shirt. Making a profit? well...

It's all a matter of perspective. People who rave about winning a couple of bucks at a "scratch off" lottery never count the $$$ they spent to win those couple of games. They're still VERY happy, so let them think they won!

For the average guy, making a profit on a car is not so easy. Bonds are safer, but I always say, you can't drive a Savings Bond!

2002 has been a terrible year for me with a lot of close people getting sick, and some of them dying. It can happen to any one of us, so whenever I go to work on my car, I know I didn't wait until tomorrow to do what I want today!

Tom
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Post by jsa3 »

Check out the 330 currently on Ebay - looks like a much better place to start to me.
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330GT
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Post by 330GT »

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Yale
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Post by Yale »

Notes on 6343:


330 GT 2+2 SERIES I, S/N 6343 (1963). Red with black interior. Four speed with overdrive. Borranis. $25,000. 11/96 Ferrari of Los Gatos, Los Gatos, CA 408/354-4000; fax 408/354-3996 1997
330 GT 2+2 SERIES I, S/N 6343 (1963). Red with black interior. Four speed with overdrive. Borranis. $27,000. 11/96 Ferrari of Los Gatos, 408/354-4000; fax 408/354-3996 (CA) 1996
For Sale 1981/03/07 $7500 Alloy Needs body and brake work
Unknown
For Sale 1983/06 $16500 Red Black Wire $8K restoration just completed
D. Woodside 604-433-4407
Burnaby BC Canada
For Sale 1989/10/14 $187500 Red Black Wire 8 yr every nut/bolt restoration
Ferrari of Los Gatos 408-354-4000 (408)354-3996 sales@ferrari-losgatos.com www.ferrari-losgatos.com/
66 East Main Street Los Gatos CA 95032 USA
Purchase 1990? $179000 Red Black Alloy
Unknown
For Sale 1996/04/27 Alloy
Ferrari of Los Gatos 408-354-4000 (408)354-3996 sales@ferrari-losgatos.com www.ferrari-losgatos.com/
66 East Main Street Los Gatos CA 95032 USA
For Sale 1996/11/09 $27000 Red Black Wire
Ferrari of Los Gatos 408-354-4000 (408)354-3996 sales@ferrari-losgatos.com www.ferrari-losgatos.com/
66 East Main Street Los Gatos CA 95032 USA
6343 Vehicle Description -ebay 1/2003
red w/black leather, 4 speed overdrive, Borranis, acquired in an estate sale, original tools, runs and drives very strong. Very correct and original. Contact rpeacock2@san.rr.com. (619) 339-3391.  


Best Yale
mikemeade
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Post by mikemeade »

Holy Cow!
Did I read that right? Did these cars really once have the price of $180,000? I know that the 330's have gone through a major price adjustment, but I never knew that it was in the six figure area!

Is this real, or is it just an insane asking price?
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330GT
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Post by 330GT »

Yes, they were advertised at that price or more. Check out:
http://www.parrotbyte.com/330GTRegistry/?6539.

In November 1989, the asking price for 6539 was $250K. But as you can see, it didn't sell and the price just kept dropping.

Regards, Kerry
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tyang
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Post by tyang »

To think some people did buy these 2+2 cars at the $150K+ level! The 80s were a crazy time with uneducated investors driving up the prices of every type of car. I don't think this will happen again, but the Real Estate Market seems to be doing the same thing again today! The reasons have changed, but the prices are back.

Tom
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