330 2+2 alternator prob

[jsa330]

Starting with a dead battery last week, the following has happened.:

-a jumpstart got me home; turnsignals, lights, etc. didn't work.

-battery recharged to 91%, 11.9 volts.

-car cranked up strongly after recharge, all electrics working, car ammeter shows discharge at idle and during driving and severe discharge with lights on at idle.

-alternator tester integral with battery tester/charger shows 0% alternator function.

All critical connections appear okay. I suspect the alternator and/or voltage regulator.

My 1964 330 2+2 has a Magnetti Marelli alternator, marked GCA10 40/12/2300.

Belt is fresh and tensioned correctly.

I can't find the voltage regulator. Is it integral in this type of alternator? If not, where is it?

I've got Charlie Dodge's recommendation for the shop that rebuilt his alternator but don't want to pull it out and send it off without further investigation.

Help or suggestions appreciated!

thanks,

Scott

[Jimmyr]

Scott, rule #1, NEVER jumpstart any vehicle unless it is an emergency! This is what typically happens - electrics are damaged.
Have the alternator checked out by a shop, or most larger autoparts stores even have a simple load test that will tell you if it working or not. If your 330 has not been modified the regulator should be on the fuse panel under the glovebox. I doubt if the regulator was damaged, but if you take it to a shop that rebuilds alternators, they can check it out when testing the alternator. Do not have an autoparts store check the regulator - they are not familiar with anything beyond a Ford in these things. Sounds loke you wiped out some diodes, a simple rebuild for most rebuilders. Jim Riff

[jsa330]

Scott, rule #1, NEVER jumpstart any vehicle unless it is an emergency! ..... Sounds loke you wiped out some diodes, a simple rebuild for most rebuilders. Jim Riff

Jim, thanks for the reply.

There are two electrical widgets under the main fuse panel cover and below the fuses, one cylindrical and on the right, toward the car center, the other rectangular and on the left, both about 2" tall...which one is the V-regulator, and what is the other one?

Both of them look very original and I should probably replace them anyway, for good measure .... possibly only the regulator has failed and wouldn't replacing it indicate whether the alternator is OK or not? Maybe I should do that first and then get the alternator tested. I can wait on the parts--the 330 is safe in my garage and I'm going to be fixing other stuff on it this fall anyway. I can take the alternator out and get it rebuilt if needed.

There was a suggestion on the FCA board that said to bypass the regulator by running a wire from the +battery terminal to the regulator connection on the alternator, and then looking at the charge indication with engine running, lights on, etc., would tell if the alternator is supplying current. I really don't want to mess with this...see next paragraph.

In regard to jumpstarts, I had a battery blow up on me about 30 yrs. ago while doing one. I was very lucky and escaped major injury but have had a healthy terror of batteries ever since...won't go near one without gloves and goggles and spent some extra $ on a high-tech charger/tester.

All seems to be OK now...it was a straight 12V to 12V jump. I've always thought that if you jumped off another 12-volt battery with no extra boost it wouldn't harm wiring...not true?

best regards,

Scott

[330GT]

Scott, look above the passenger feet area, kind of behind the glove box. There's a vinyl covering that you'll have to undo, but you should find the voltage regulator on the firewall. It's red, rectangular if it's the original.

[Michael Bayer]

Kerry: If the master relay fails, is the charging circuit taken out? Michael BAyer

[330GT]

I can't remember and I'm in Monterey so I don't have a wiring diagram. I do think that the alternator is on a fuse though.

[Jimmyr]

Scott, the photo shown in the above comment is the voltage regulator for your 330, if someone has not replaced it in the past. The round object you mentioned is the turn signal flasher and should not be a problem if the turn signals work OK. There is no master relay in the car, unless they are refering to the starter or possibly the horn, but this has nothing to do with the problem you indicated. DO NOT jumper anything on the car to test it, as serious damage to the solid state (transistor) regulator will result ($200). Remove the alternator and have it tested, until then you are only guessing. Any jump start action always has the ability to damage electrical components on any car. No mater how careful you are small sparks called transients can weaken or destroy sensitive electronic components on modern cars. This is lesser of a problem on the older generator equipt cars that have no semiconductors to damage. If you can choose to, error on the safe side.

[jsa330]

I found the regulator under the glovebox inside the car...I had been looking under the hood. It's the same as your pic, Kerry, and looks very clean and new. Possibly a later replacement?

I stopped at a neighborhood shop and they can test the alternator, in the car. I have enough juice in the battery to make it there and back home. That will give me the info and if needed I'll probably contact the rebuilder that Charlie Dodge posted about awhile back.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll post how it turns out.

Jim, I think you have scared me away from messing with batteries for good...I'm relieved, actually.

[Jimmyr]

Scott, my purpose was to educate you and hopefully not scare you. If you have knowledge of these things then you can address them with ease. One final comment, I have always told owners to add a battery disconect switch to their cars so as to prevent things from happening when you are not around. And never disconnect the battery in any way when the engine is running! Good luck, you should be back on the road quickly when this is fixed. Jim Riff

[jsa330]

Jim, just kidding, but also serious. That battery explosion way back definitely made an impression on me! You've given me some good additional pointers, much appreciated.

I do have a disconnect and turn it off whenever the 330 is parked for more than a half-hour.

The shop test confirmed the diagnosis: Fried alternator. I'm going to get it rebuilt. The rest of the charging system, including the battery, checked fine and no slow drain was detected. The voltage regulator was fine but I will probably replace it anyway and keep this one as a spare.

[Jimmyr]

Scott, this is typical of jump start damage for the alternator. Again, NO jump starting! These Marelli voltage regulators are pretty expensive, but GT Parts in Phoenix and Ruthlands have rebuilt ones if you really need one. There is a phenolic (plastic like) square block on the fuse panel that hs 4 set screws holding some heavy wires. This junction block has been a problem on older cars, and sometimes causes a voltage drop in the system that could also damage electrics. Cleanup is very easy, one terminal at a time loosen the screw and pull the wires out and shine them up with emery or similar. Reinstall and tighten the set screw. Repeat on each of the 4 terminals. These screws should be tightened from time to time to insure good conections. Jim

[jsa330]

Jim, I didn't locate anything that precisely matched your description on the fuse panel, but there are 3 or 4 electical components with heavy wires emerging from them, aside from the two small vertical panels that cover the fuses. Since the alternator and the battery are coming out, and I'm going to take advantage of the better access to do an engine cleanup and detail, I should do what you and Kerry have both suggested, and clean up all the connections and contact points in the fusebox area, taking care not to cause damage or misconnect anything. It's all original and the fuses are the old ceramic type...they are all ok except one and I think that's to the highbeam flashers, which don't work. Are the glass tube type fuses of the same amperage rating and length with conical contact tips OK to use in place of the ceramic ones?

Thanks for the refs for the regulator....I'll call them as I wouldn't mind having a spare and can price some other parts as well.

Scott

[Jimmyr]

Scott, the glass tube fuses are the modern USA replacement for the ceramic European ones, and they are electrically identical. These newer fuses have a non corroding tip that is much more stable as far as oxidation, and the glass tube protects the fuse element from handling damages. As far as the terminal block, it is about an inch and a half square and is the one with the heavy wires connecting to it. There 4 brass or steel slotted head set screws that face you while looking at the main board near where the regulator is mounted. Jim

[jsa330]

Jim---V-regulator in my car is mounted inside the passenger compartment, under and behind the glovebox.

[Jimmyr]

Isn't this where the fuse board is mounted? On some of the early cars the fuses may have been in the engine side of the firewall. But the junction block that I was refering to should also be located on the same mounting board as the fuses. Generally all of these electrics,( fuses regulator,relays flasher, etc.) are usually behind the glovebox on most of the later 330's. Jim