Front Spring and Ride height 330Series

[whturner]

Just completed mechanical rebuild of my car (330 10069) including front end rebuild. Although the springs and seats were replaced, my mechanic and I both think the front end still LOOKS a bit low.
I bought the springs many years ago from FAF using the part numbers from the manual. And the cars have the correct size tires, front and back. But do the air conditioned cars and power steering cars use a different spring? Does anyone have the correct length for the spring and/or ride height for the front end?
It drives quite well as to be sure.

Thanks
Warren

[330GT]

... But do the air conditioned cars and power steering cars use a different spring?
Warren

No, the parts books for the A/C and P/S don't show any different parts for the suspension, though they do for other parts like the steering wheel.

... Does anyone have the correct length for the spring and/or ride height for the front end?
It drives quite well as to be sure.

Thanks
Warren

From the 330 GT service manual:
Front suspension springs
Free length - 13.01"
Length static load - 8.46"
Length dynamic load - 6.68"
Static load - 1157 lbs.
Dynamic load - 1609 lbs.
Flexibility - 0.22
Wire diameter - .51"
Outside diameter - 3.91"
Total coils - 11.5

The interesting thing is that there's all this information about the front springs, but nothing on the rear springs (either coil or flat ones).

The height of my 330 GT, measured from the ground to the highest point of the wheel arch in the fender is 26.75" (R) and 27" (L). That is with 215/75-15 tires which have about the same diameter as the original 205-15 (80 series). Measuring from the bottom of the knockoff (easier than trying to use the center) to the wheel arch (eliminates tire size differences) is 16.25" (R) and 16" (L). So my car lists slightly to the right, but that's offset when I heave my body into the driver's seat.

[Michael Bayer]

Warren: There is another solution (if you have used up the height adjustment in the spring buckets and are still low) find a set of used Queen front springs. They are a slight bit taller that the 330s but with the exact coil diameter, they will stand the front end up exactly where it should be, plus give it a slightly stifffer (more modern) feel. Michael Bayer 330GT #9727, 365GTC/4 #14947

[whturner]

Hi Kerry and Micheal.
Looks as if the springs are at fault. My distance ground to fender lip is 25"", and the tire diameter is right. Also, upon further research, the manual shows the lower control arm should be essentially horizontal; in my case there is a substantial upward slant toward the outer end, consistent with the lower ride height. And this measurement is tire independent also. (If all else fails, read the instructions)
Looks like Michael's suggestion is the way to go. If I can find the listed specs for the 365 GT springs, I can even have some made up, if good used ones are not readily available or too expensive.

Thanks
Warren
PS: What a great site and guys.

[Stephanm]

I bought 4 springs for a 275 GTS and the rear of the car seems low. They came from Italy and all the measurements/number of coils were spot on but when testing them for load they were 100lbs light. Instead of trying to find another pair of springs I just added 1/2" spacer which picked her up 1".

A few people told me that they are not Ferrari supplied springs unless the load ratings are etched into the end but I have 2 sets of springs out of 275 GTB, one set from 275 GTS and one set from 330 GTC. Don't you think one of these sets wold have this etching. I have seen on this posting an image of the etching so I have been looking but have never seen these etchings.

[Yale]

I have said this before and I don't think it will make anyones day this time either BUT Tom S has a basement full of assorted Ferrari springs, he has no idea what they are too and doesn't want to be bothered to try to figure it out, so if you are in L.A....think what fun you could have. Yale

[Michael Bayer]

Warren: I don't know what new spec Queen Springs would do, I am certain used Queens for my car were perfect, given the car to car differences, experimentation is the way to go, begin with your old springs at rest heights but get them on a spring rate machine to see how much stiffness is left, that is a crucial as the height. Then you will know what height to look for, and when you find that heaight in a pair, you might want to rate check them to insure its what you want, what I found was most of the 60s and early 70s springs are the same coil diameter, so there are many height and stiggness choices in a pile of old springs M

[whturner]

Hi Michael:

That is kind of what I was planning - but one question. Were you referring to springs from domestic cars, or foreign ones (or both)? I would have to look around some to find any collection of the latter.
One alternative is to calculate from the geometry what the actual spring properties should be to raise the front end by the proper amount. I would still have to find a spring tester to see what the present springs are, so I would know how much additional length and/or stiffness is required.

Cheers
Warren

[Michael Bayer]

Warren: I do not think Queens or 330s vary in weight between Euro and US versions, so few items are different. Check w the ususal list of parts houses, someone must have a set, I can not imagine there are a lot of takers for used springs, and more than a few Queens have been parted out, you might be able to work a returnable sale if your height is not corrected, its not as though you would harm them in the test installation.

[Michael Bayer]

As to a spring tester, Chuck Wray has one at his shop, Grand Touring in Virginia. Michael Bayer

[whturner]

Does anyone have access to front coil spring data on the 365 GT? It would be interesting to compare with the 330 GT specs. Or does anyone have a set of 365 GT springs they would like to get rid of?

Cheers
Warren

[zac]

I have a few sets of 365 springs and can get you dimensions and spring rate if that helps but my suggestion if you are unhappy with the current set up would be to buy a set of Eibach springs of the correct spring rate for your application instead of using another 30 year old set of springs. I know Eibach makes 14 inch springs in the proper diameter in 25LB. increments so you can solve just about whatever suspensin problem you are having.

Zac

[whturner]

Zac - thanks for the offer. If it is not a lot of trouble, I would be interested in the specs, to compare with what Ferrari listed for the 330 GT.
I think you are right - old springs, even those never installed - might be a problem, even if you think they are the correct item off the shelf. As I did, yet the ride height is 2" lower than Ferrari specifies, which gives me too much tire rub and bottoming.
I am having a new pair made up to the Ferrari specs for ride height, but 15% stiffer. It appears that the OE springs were not upgraded for the late 330s which may have had power steering and air conditioning, like mine. I guess there is at least 200 lbs extra weight. And I have, over the years, been happier with a little stiffer front suspension; I usually put station wagon springs in my sedans.
It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Cheers
Warren

[zac]

Warren,

I didn't forget about the springs just had a lot of other things on my plate lately. I had the opotunity to measure several sets of spring from different cars and speak with the engineers at Eibach as well as some engineer friends of mine in the performance offroad bussiness. Here is what I came up with so far.

365 2+2 front springs

14" free length

3" inside diameter

4" outside diameter

Spring rate as tested( 400-415lbs.) probably 425 lbs. when new, taking into consideration age and sag. Rate is measured as the difference in rate between 1/3 coil bind and 2/3 coil bind.

250 series one cab front springs

12" free length

2 5/8" inside diameter

3 5/8" outside diameter

coils were heat cycled badly but based upon wire diameter and coil spacing and suspension geometry we are estimating 325-350 lb. spring rate.

I will pull the GTE springs this week and report but I would think they would be a 350-375 rate and the 330s would be in the 375-400 range based on vehicle weight and similar suspension geometry

Hope that helps, springs from eibach are no more than 50 bucks a piece and the engineers there are very helpfull. If you give them you nominal dimensions they should be able to get close. we decided to error on the softer side and adjust with the spring cup circlip positions if needed and if the front is still to soft you can always buy a stiffer set for a hundred bucks.

Zac

[grumpy2]

I have just removed my front springs. I don't think that they have ever been out. I can e-mail pic. of the engraveing to who ever needs them. I have also made a spring compressor to get the springs out with the car apart. I have pictures of it and how it works.

E-mail shedworks@bellsouth.net