a new project begins
Mike, You are correct on roadsters and some unibody cars it is very important to crossbrace the vehicle to keep it from flexing or bending. In the past I have usually run braces between the door jams. On cars where the body detaches from the frame you have to build a relatively complex structure to keep the car from bending. The Ferrari road car frames are so stiff that as long as you get good pick up points on the main frame and as long as the jig itself is level things should stay the same. I spent many hours designing the attachment brackets I came up with to mount right where the cars suspension mounts so there should be no difference than when the car is sitting on the ground.
Zac
Zac
1970 365 gt 2+2 13137, 1997 550 Maranello, 1969 Lamborghini Miura S, 1973 365 GTB/4 Daytona
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Tom Wilson
- Posts: 1152
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- Location: Los Angeles, CA
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These bodies don't just "come off", that would require a lot of cutting and metal replacement and would not be worth it. The only time I have seen a Ferrari frame removed from a road car was to make a replica or if the body was completely trashed, even than the pieces that can be saved are left in place.
Zac
Zac
1970 365 gt 2+2 13137, 1997 550 Maranello, 1969 Lamborghini Miura S, 1973 365 GTB/4 Daytona
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David Booth
- Posts: 271
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- Location: Vista, California
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Hey Zac:
Interesting that you went underneath to pick up the rear frame rails - where did you grab the front of the car? On my cab, I attached the rotisserie to the front of the car by utilizing the motor mounts and the front crossmember, and for the rear, bracketed over the trunk's rear lip and down to the frame rails in the spare tire well.
I elected not to brace the car with it on the fixture, reasoning that the doors don't exactly keep it from folding in half when it's on the road, so how would this be any different. I paid attention to the measurement from the base of the windshield to the front of the rear deck the first time I picked it up on the rotisserie and didn't see any change, so just plunged on ahead. Did I just get lucky? What have you seen happen in similar circumstances?
I'd attach a couple of pictures if I could dope out how it's done....
Interesting that you went underneath to pick up the rear frame rails - where did you grab the front of the car? On my cab, I attached the rotisserie to the front of the car by utilizing the motor mounts and the front crossmember, and for the rear, bracketed over the trunk's rear lip and down to the frame rails in the spare tire well.
I elected not to brace the car with it on the fixture, reasoning that the doors don't exactly keep it from folding in half when it's on the road, so how would this be any different. I paid attention to the measurement from the base of the windshield to the front of the rear deck the first time I picked it up on the rotisserie and didn't see any change, so just plunged on ahead. Did I just get lucky? What have you seen happen in similar circumstances?
I'd attach a couple of pictures if I could dope out how it's done....
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
Zac,
Yeah, the car is nice and the rotisserie is a mechanical engineer's dream, but what really blew my mind is that your photos show:
Sunshine strong enough to cast dark shadows.
Green grass and bushes with real leaves.
Dirt - honest-to-god real dry dirt.
Blue sky with big white (not dark gray) puffy clouds.
All I've seen here in Quebec, for months on end, is SNOW, GRAY CLOUDS, HIGH WINDS, BELOW ZERO TEMPERATURES, and ICE.
I have to do all my work in my garage with no ventilation, with the insulated doors closed, the flourescent lights on and the electric (220V) heater going.
I'm beginning to rethink why I moved Northeast instead of Southwest from Michigan.
By the way, the car and the rotisserie are really, really nice work.
Congratulations on finishing the rotisserie.
Tom Kizer
Yeah, the car is nice and the rotisserie is a mechanical engineer's dream, but what really blew my mind is that your photos show:
Sunshine strong enough to cast dark shadows.
Green grass and bushes with real leaves.
Dirt - honest-to-god real dry dirt.
Blue sky with big white (not dark gray) puffy clouds.
All I've seen here in Quebec, for months on end, is SNOW, GRAY CLOUDS, HIGH WINDS, BELOW ZERO TEMPERATURES, and ICE.
I have to do all my work in my garage with no ventilation, with the insulated doors closed, the flourescent lights on and the electric (220V) heater going.
I'm beginning to rethink why I moved Northeast instead of Southwest from Michigan.
By the way, the car and the rotisserie are really, really nice work.
Congratulations on finishing the rotisserie.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
David, I was speaking mostly of other model roadsters not necessarily Ferraris, they use the same stiff frame (sometimes stiffer) and the body is really just there to sell the motor. I have grabbed the trunk frame and motor mounts in the past like you mentioned but this time I wanted to go the extra mile and make it more painter friendly so that he does not have big brackets in his way when doing bodywork. I grabbed the front at the point where the suspension pins go through the frame by machining some thick wall tubing to go in the pins place than drilled holes in a piece of 2" box to accept the tubing and welded the 90 degree arms to that. In the rear I picked up the rear spring shackle mounting stud and frame.
Tom, don't be to jealous we had a pretty cold storm roll through over the weekend and even got some snow in the local mountains. Hey it even dipped in the 40's for a couple days, that's it I packing up the Family and going to Florida for a couple weeks :-). Almost had to put the Birkenstocks away and break out some real shoes.
Zac
Tom, don't be to jealous we had a pretty cold storm roll through over the weekend and even got some snow in the local mountains. Hey it even dipped in the 40's for a couple days, that's it I packing up the Family and going to Florida for a couple weeks :-). Almost had to put the Birkenstocks away and break out some real shoes.
Zac
1970 365 gt 2+2 13137, 1997 550 Maranello, 1969 Lamborghini Miura S, 1973 365 GTB/4 Daytona
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
- Posts: 1206
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Tom Wilson
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:01 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Contact:
Zac is not able to reply right now, but maybe I can help with those withdrawls. I visited Zac last monday and he gave me a tour of Tom Shaughnessy's ranch.
First of all, Zac and the ranch are well worth a visit. Zac is a great guy who made plenty of time to show me around. The ranch is in the hills north of San Diego and has Avacado trees and views for miles (including the ocean on a clear day, I am told). Of course the close up views are great as well, with the cars Tom is driving or restoring spread all over (the parts he is selling are still in San Clamente). Most of the cars are whole, but one was just shelves full of parts. Zac assures me there was a whole car there. Tom's collection is impressive. He also has a great pool that they are repairing. Maybe it will be done in time for Tom Yang's return party?
There were only a few parts of the GTE around, as the drivetrain is with Jens and the body is being painted nearby. I think the rest are at Zac's shop. After fooling around with the cars at the ranch, we visited the paint shop. The body had only recently been delivered and the guys were just starting to strip the paint. It was really interesting to see the car stripped down to just the body and frame. I finally know what my car looks like under all that oil and grease!
My camera wasn't working up to par that day, but here are a couple of shots to keep you satisfied until Zac returns:
By the way, those are Zac's legs in the door photo. It is the only one I got of him that turned out!
First of all, Zac and the ranch are well worth a visit. Zac is a great guy who made plenty of time to show me around. The ranch is in the hills north of San Diego and has Avacado trees and views for miles (including the ocean on a clear day, I am told). Of course the close up views are great as well, with the cars Tom is driving or restoring spread all over (the parts he is selling are still in San Clamente). Most of the cars are whole, but one was just shelves full of parts. Zac assures me there was a whole car there. Tom's collection is impressive. He also has a great pool that they are repairing. Maybe it will be done in time for Tom Yang's return party?
There were only a few parts of the GTE around, as the drivetrain is with Jens and the body is being painted nearby. I think the rest are at Zac's shop. After fooling around with the cars at the ranch, we visited the paint shop. The body had only recently been delivered and the guys were just starting to strip the paint. It was really interesting to see the car stripped down to just the body and frame. I finally know what my car looks like under all that oil and grease!
My camera wasn't working up to par that day, but here are a couple of shots to keep you satisfied until Zac returns:
By the way, those are Zac's legs in the door photo. It is the only one I got of him that turned out!
thanks Tom for the update in my absence,
I am currently on the 28th floor of the Trump resort on Miami beach and will be spending the next several days lounging by the pool and drinking Mai Tais, than it's off to Disney with the kids and back home to the daunting work load that is compiling as I vacation. The vacation has not been without it's Ferrari events though, I actually squeezed in an inspection of a car for Shaughnessy that just arrived in Ft Lauderdale from overseas and am hoping to get a chance to visit a gentalmans collection in Boca this week.
I assure you Tom that was all the parts for the GTE on the shelves, or at least I hopes that's all of them:)
I will post more progress when I get back and hopefully will be receiving some the restored parts back from venders in the next few weeks. The painter should also have some spray out panals for me to look at when I get back so the process of matching the very difficult color can get underway.
I was waiting to hear if I was getting another project before I began restoring the suspension on the GTE so that Hopefully I can combine the plating orders and save the owners some money.
anyways back to the R&R
Zac
I am currently on the 28th floor of the Trump resort on Miami beach and will be spending the next several days lounging by the pool and drinking Mai Tais, than it's off to Disney with the kids and back home to the daunting work load that is compiling as I vacation. The vacation has not been without it's Ferrari events though, I actually squeezed in an inspection of a car for Shaughnessy that just arrived in Ft Lauderdale from overseas and am hoping to get a chance to visit a gentalmans collection in Boca this week.
I assure you Tom that was all the parts for the GTE on the shelves, or at least I hopes that's all of them:)
I will post more progress when I get back and hopefully will be receiving some the restored parts back from venders in the next few weeks. The painter should also have some spray out panals for me to look at when I get back so the process of matching the very difficult color can get underway.
I was waiting to hear if I was getting another project before I began restoring the suspension on the GTE so that Hopefully I can combine the plating orders and save the owners some money.
anyways back to the R&R
Zac
1970 365 gt 2+2 13137, 1997 550 Maranello, 1969 Lamborghini Miura S, 1973 365 GTB/4 Daytona
Tom S. bought it, but it was advertised for all to see in Autoweek for $25k obo. I'm betting that Tom, as usual, didn't hem and haw over price and condition, i'm sure he just asked "does it have a motor" and then sent the check and the truck.Harmony wrote:Excellent write up and project. How did you find such a car unrestored? I would love to get my hands on a project like this for myself to toy around with.
T308
(For whom Tom had to work a little harder to secure a GTE)
Come on Tom S, you are going to ruin the game by just giving the ad price right off. What about all the give and take ,back and forth , the lies and deception we all love so much. I also was lead to believe that the DMV required a PPI prior to any Ferrari purchase. You really are quite the rebel ! Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB