Hi all,
Just a few weeks for most of us to drive the nice cars in good weather. Leads me to thinking... What are your preferred methods for cleaning and conditioning leather?
My experience is only with Griot's Garage Leather conditioner and cleaner and Leatherique.
I have sprayed on (factory - non Ferrari) color, not vat-dyed. Neither product did a *good* job of softening up the leather to where I think it should be.
The Leatherique cleaner seemed to work great. Taking off a little color with 1500 grit sandpaper. Seats were out of the car and I methodically went over them completely. I did three separate applications of their Rejuvenator oil letting the seats "sauna out" (back in car) and absorb what they could.
Overall, I was somewhat underwhelmed with the results.
The guys who know the most about leather (leather installers/professionals), never have a need to address this, so they almost never offer any meaningful advice.
Did the 308+ series have sprayed on dye? Frank @ Leatherique said virtually every "modern" car has sprayed on dye and just to keep doing the rejuvenator oil.
Is three applications enough? Is there anything else you'd recommend? I don't want to run at it with mink oil (what you use for baseball gloves), but my seats are NLA and I don't want them to crack. It took my 18 months to find these and I'd like to keep them functional as long as possible.
Thanks for your insights!
Koll
PS: Tom - great video!!
Leather care (spray-on dyed)
When I got my car to Dallas in March '03 it had the the original leather throughout, though it had been sprayed-redyed a light but factory-correct color at some point. I tried the Leatherique treatment on the front seats with much the same results as yours...nearly zip. Then the dry, 100+ Texas summer temps set in and the several of the deep wrinkles in the leather on both front seats split wide open. As I was facing other reconditioning expenses, I had an el cheapo but decent looking and serviceable recover done on the seat & back surfaces on the fronts.
As I see it, the spray redyeing seals the exposed leather off from needed ambient moisture and also makes it nearly impossible to effectively apply conditioners. It's a slow death sentence...the leather dries out and you can't replenish the lost moisture.
I've done a lot of interior detail work and all of it looks very presentable together, but a good part of the remaining original redyed leather is fairly dry and wouldn't hold up long if it was on stressed surfaces. I haven't found a product yet that has any appreciable effect on the dryness.
As I see it, the spray redyeing seals the exposed leather off from needed ambient moisture and also makes it nearly impossible to effectively apply conditioners. It's a slow death sentence...the leather dries out and you can't replenish the lost moisture.
I've done a lot of interior detail work and all of it looks very presentable together, but a good part of the remaining original redyed leather is fairly dry and wouldn't hold up long if it was on stressed surfaces. I haven't found a product yet that has any appreciable effect on the dryness.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
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mikewegener
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:10 am
- Location: El Mirage, CA
Leather
20 years ago I worked for the German Connolly Leather distributor. I visited the factory in England many times.
The leather used in sixties Ferraris and most other luxury cars was their "Vaumol" quality. All hides were vegetable tanned which produced the classic Connolly smell and than had a "leather texture" imprinted on the surface. This was done to produce a uniform surface and maximum yield from a hide. All leather manufacturers use this process of a giant press with a heated engraved die to give leather a consumer specific look. Hence the different textures of a sixties Ferrari vs. a Jaguar or a Mercedes.
After tanning the hides were strapped into a big wooden frame, cleaned and painted like a car. These paint s(dyes) were also available in little bottles for companies that did "Connollizing" which was a respraying of the leather surfaces for the used car market in Britain.
The misconception is that Vat-dyed leather miracously produces that nice leather look on top. Vat dying was invented for the furniture trade to keep gouges in the surface from being too visible. Vat dying is just another step before the leather gets painted.
Obviously herein lies the problem of keeping leather nice in dry climates. The paint on top hinders reconditioning efforts and the exposed backside dries out fron the inside.
Connolly had a product called Hide Food. David Connolly told us once that "Hide Food is a wonderful product - It does absolutely no harm to leather at all". It also did not do much to prevent the leather from drying out either.
If your original vegetable tanned leather is still serviceable I would recommend having the seat covers removed and the leather conditioner applied from the inside. If you already have the more modern cheap silicon tanned furniture type leather there is not much you can do but drive it til it looks too shabby and then replace the bad parts using a leather dye to repaint the whole seat to make it all look uniform.
Because of the world wide EPA requirements vegetable dyed leather is nearly all gone and Connolly leather smelled the best. It was also made for automotive use and had a little shine to it the likes of which we will never see again.
Connolly Bros. was forced by "green" concerns to change to silicon tanned leathers in the late eighties and while the colors were still the same the leather was no different from other cheaper imports. They closed the doors for good about ten years later.
The leather used in sixties Ferraris and most other luxury cars was their "Vaumol" quality. All hides were vegetable tanned which produced the classic Connolly smell and than had a "leather texture" imprinted on the surface. This was done to produce a uniform surface and maximum yield from a hide. All leather manufacturers use this process of a giant press with a heated engraved die to give leather a consumer specific look. Hence the different textures of a sixties Ferrari vs. a Jaguar or a Mercedes.
After tanning the hides were strapped into a big wooden frame, cleaned and painted like a car. These paint s(dyes) were also available in little bottles for companies that did "Connollizing" which was a respraying of the leather surfaces for the used car market in Britain.
The misconception is that Vat-dyed leather miracously produces that nice leather look on top. Vat dying was invented for the furniture trade to keep gouges in the surface from being too visible. Vat dying is just another step before the leather gets painted.
Obviously herein lies the problem of keeping leather nice in dry climates. The paint on top hinders reconditioning efforts and the exposed backside dries out fron the inside.
Connolly had a product called Hide Food. David Connolly told us once that "Hide Food is a wonderful product - It does absolutely no harm to leather at all". It also did not do much to prevent the leather from drying out either.
If your original vegetable tanned leather is still serviceable I would recommend having the seat covers removed and the leather conditioner applied from the inside. If you already have the more modern cheap silicon tanned furniture type leather there is not much you can do but drive it til it looks too shabby and then replace the bad parts using a leather dye to repaint the whole seat to make it all look uniform.
Because of the world wide EPA requirements vegetable dyed leather is nearly all gone and Connolly leather smelled the best. It was also made for automotive use and had a little shine to it the likes of which we will never see again.
Connolly Bros. was forced by "green" concerns to change to silicon tanned leathers in the late eighties and while the colors were still the same the leather was no different from other cheaper imports. They closed the doors for good about ten years later.
Thanks for the post, Mike Wegener. That's good information.
I'm not a fan of Leatherique.
I re-did (redyed) my 330's seats using Liquid Leather, and I think they came out great. (They smell like Ferrari leather, too.)
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attach ... 1136489757
I'm not a fan of Leatherique.
I re-did (redyed) my 330's seats using Liquid Leather, and I think they came out great. (They smell like Ferrari leather, too.)
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attach ... 1136489757
1967 330 GT 2+2 #9453
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm
Mike, thanks for your very insightful post. I guess they'll have to come off. That would be a good time to get the seat heaters working right as well.
Now I'll put you on the spot. What do you use on a routine or semi-routine basis to do what's possible from the outside as far as a product?
Great looking re-dye Matt! Did you do anything to make them more supple?
I think I'll give Lexol a shot. If nothing 'cause it's almost free (cheap) and available nearly everywhere.
Anybody else got any words, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it!
Now I'll put you on the spot. What do you use on a routine or semi-routine basis to do what's possible from the outside as far as a product?
Great looking re-dye Matt! Did you do anything to make them more supple?
I think I'll give Lexol a shot. If nothing 'cause it's almost free (cheap) and available nearly everywhere.
Anybody else got any words, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it!
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Tom Wilson
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:01 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Contact:
I love this about this site. Someone asks a basic question about an ordinary subject like leather care and up pops a representative from Connolly who can tell us everything there is to know about the subject! Where else can you get this depth of knowledge and have it shared with everyone for free? Good post Mike.
And Koll; Seat Heaters??? My wife would kill for seat heaters on the GTE!
And Koll; Seat Heaters??? My wife would kill for seat heaters on the GTE!
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mikewegener
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:10 am
- Location: El Mirage, CA
Connolly leather care - About as british a pastime as can be. Back in the old world when I needed to keep my Lotus alive I visited England very frequently. I found that all over the country sunday mornings were spent on preventive maintenance. That explained why you still find cars with nice original interiors.
I really do not think that it is important which product to use. I think it is important that on a regular basis something but Amor-all is used to keep the leather from drying out. I personally use Lexol and have used Hide Food until I could not find any anymore.
The old paints were organic laquers and probably let a lot more of the Hide Food (lanillin?) ingredients soak into the leather than the modern paints that produce a non porous surface. They are environmentally friendly though...
For the adventurous amongst you I recommend a trip to the local shoe repair supplies wholesaler. You will find all kinds of leather rejuvenators, strippers and dyes. I go there when I restore old motorcycle seats that are candidates for saving. Look for vintage labels and avoid anything that contains silicon.
I really do not think that it is important which product to use. I think it is important that on a regular basis something but Amor-all is used to keep the leather from drying out. I personally use Lexol and have used Hide Food until I could not find any anymore.
The old paints were organic laquers and probably let a lot more of the Hide Food (lanillin?) ingredients soak into the leather than the modern paints that produce a non porous surface. They are environmentally friendly though...
For the adventurous amongst you I recommend a trip to the local shoe repair supplies wholesaler. You will find all kinds of leather rejuvenators, strippers and dyes. I go there when I restore old motorcycle seats that are candidates for saving. Look for vintage labels and avoid anything that contains silicon.
I used the Liquid Leather conditioner. It works great, and smells like wonderful. I like it a lot better than Lexol. I had to order mine from the UK.Koll wrote:Great looking re-dye Matt! Did you do anything to make them more supple?
I think I'll give Lexol a shot. If nothing 'cause it's almost free (cheap) and available nearly everywhere.
Some months ago a British car magazine (I've forgotten which) did a comparison between different leatehr conditioners, and Liquid Leather was ranked top. Lexol, Connoley Hide Food, and a few others were included in the comparison.
It's great stuff.
1967 330 GT 2+2 #9453
Wow. So, I'm surfing the web and I dig real deep and come up with a company in Canada that generally caters to the glove/shoe/apparel market.
http://www.urad.com
They are one of the few smaller companies that actually supports their retailes. I found it locally in Redmond.
I bought URAD and "Tenderly". I was a little skeptical, but took the plunge.
I'll be damned if it (Tenderly) actually isn't softening up the leather (!) Too early to tell for sure, but I followed the directions and I think it's working. I wrote them and asked what the ramifications of multiple applications would be. (The URAD has some wax so I'm not completely down with that). But the Tenderly product seems to be showing potential. Drys in 5 minutes. Not oily. Is the consistency of yoghurt.
I'll report back. Anybody ever heard of this?
http://www.urad.com
They are one of the few smaller companies that actually supports their retailes. I found it locally in Redmond.
I bought URAD and "Tenderly". I was a little skeptical, but took the plunge.
I'll be damned if it (Tenderly) actually isn't softening up the leather (!) Too early to tell for sure, but I followed the directions and I think it's working. I wrote them and asked what the ramifications of multiple applications would be. (The URAD has some wax so I'm not completely down with that). But the Tenderly product seems to be showing potential. Drys in 5 minutes. Not oily. Is the consistency of yoghurt.
I'll report back. Anybody ever heard of this?
Matt -- there are several products that come up when searching for Liquid Leather -- is Lane's the correct one?Matt F wrote:I used the Liquid Leather conditioner. It works great, and smells like wonderful. I like it a lot better than Lexol. I had to order mine from the UK.
Some months ago a British car magazine (I've forgotten which) did a comparison between different leatehr conditioners, and Liquid Leather was ranked top. Lexol, Connoley Hide Food, and a few others were included in the comparison.
It's great stuff.
http://www.lanescarproducts.com/lileco.html
Regards,
Peter
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169
Actually, based upon the UK reference, this one might be more likely to be it:
http://www.amazon.com/Gliptone-Leather- ... automotive
Regards,
Peter
http://www.amazon.com/Gliptone-Leather- ... automotive
Regards,
Peter
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169
That's the one, Peter. (The second one, I mean.)
Or, check out www.liquidleather.com. That's where I got mine.
Or, check out www.liquidleather.com. That's where I got mine.
1967 330 GT 2+2 #9453