to rebuild or not to rebuild??? hmm....

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eve23
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to rebuild or not to rebuild??? hmm....

Post by eve23 » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:09 pm

hi guys
its been a while......im back to my GTE...i've been rotating cars....
so i have the car at my mechanic...its been smoking bad and oil is backing up into the carbs.....compression test results...
#1-175, 2-170, *3-0, 4-160,5-170,6-150,
7-140,8-145,9-130,10-135,11-135,12-130
he says its rings....maybe a stuck or burned valve....he says labor alone is $11.5K not including parts.....im very reluctant to do it.....if he said labor $5K i would say yes......guys??? thoughts....???? if the engine is broken down for 11K , i might asd well go all the way ....how many more hours could it be to do bearings,guides, crank etc.....??? im curious to hear your thoughts before i make a decision.....if i do the work the price of this car goes way up....
eddie :roll:

Michael Bayer
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Post by Michael Bayer » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:36 am

What the heck does he say is going on in #3? if that is a valve train issue (not a valve) and resolvable, the other numbers would qualify for a "driver" in many hands, before you commit to a complete rebuild worry this a bit, This site has several excellent discussions detailing the cost of rebuilding a Colombo 12.

afwrench
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Post by afwrench » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:42 am

Eddie, I think that you need to find out why #3 is at zero prior to making any decision. A reading like that indicates either something very bad like a hole in the piston or a valve head knocked off or something simple like maybe a broken valve spring that is letting a valve stay open. The other readings while all not within the 10% rule are not all that bad. Do others know if these engines blow head gaskets towards the intake or exhaust manifolds rather than adjacent cylinders?Possily giving a poor reading on just one cylinder. A leak down test on #3 should provide some insight, where is the air going? Regads and good luck , Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB

andrew
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Post by andrew » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:25 am

The other notable thing about the numbers is the discrepancy between right and left banks overall. When you're getting to the bottom of what's wrong with #3, figuring out why there is a clear difference between the 2 banks should be a priority as well.
'64 330 America s/n 5109

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:54 am

Who's the mechanic?

Why $11.5K labor just to open?

Has the #3 cylinder been scoped?

Step 1 - get a second opinion!

When I first brought my car to Francois, his first and impression was that the motor was shot. However, his first response was: Let's set up the motor as is and see what we've got and diagnose from there. $1500. (parts included) later, I had perfect numbers and a great running engine!

Good Luck,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:33 pm

Making the right decision depends on knowing all the facts. Eddie, find out everything you can before committing to a full rebuild. When I had my motor rebuilt there were no surprises since all the diagnostic research was done correctly beforehand.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

eve23
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Post by eve23 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:11 pm

thanks guys.....did the leak down.....next is we will check the valves.....
could be a bad piston.........but i can assure you i am not spending 11K w/o knowing what im getting into.......the 11k would be full labor if we have to go as far as rings and gaskets.......
we will check tomorrow.......let you know......
eddie
ps-tom ....your numbers have changed......contact me offline......

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:28 pm

Hi Eddie,

Welcome back.

Francois usually says it's about 120 hours to do an engine, so you need to make sure you know what you're getting for your money. RandR is usually only a few hours. Parts can affect the rebuild cost considerably. I know your engine definately needs new guides and seals, but are you buying new pistons, valves, rods, etc.?? What about bolts and finishes. If you want to get over $100k for your GTE, the engine had better be perfect.That means nickel plating, chrome plating, and black oxide coatings in all the right places. You don't have to do this, but now would be the time...

Will your mechanic align bore the block? Usually, the valvetrain will need some new parts like Roller followers and adjusters. The bill will rise. Trust me.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

xs10shl
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Post by xs10shl » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:58 am

For cheapskates like me, there are always alternatives to overhauling the whole motor. One trick which I pulled off (which may apply to you) was to perform an "outpatient" procedure on the motor, by removing the head while the motor was still in the car, dropping the oil pan, popping out the cylinder, and just replacing the one offending piston ring.

What sucks in your case is that the dead cylinder is on the (otherwise) hard side.

eve23
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Post by eve23 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:04 pm

hi guys
ok so we did the leakdown and all te air is coming out of the oil breather
the #3 piston has a hole in it........shot.....we are going to take engine out and replace the one piston and new rings all around ...one rocker bearing is shot ....new seals and top end......got a better deal also......
then may sell her......we'll see.......eddie

Michael Bayer
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Post by Michael Bayer » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:39 am

Now that the mechanical path is clear there are some other choices to consider, Tom raised some above with immediate net to the wallet impact should you chose to sell vs hold and drive. Tom and others on this forum might privately advise you, M

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:05 pm

Eddie,

I am a tad surprised by your "Let's fix it and dump it" response.
Why not fix it and enjoy it?


Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:16 pm

Eddie,

The market is hot now. If you are serious about selling it, why not put it on the market as-is. Less headaches and the new owner will fix it the way he wants to.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

t walgamuth
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Post by t walgamuth » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:43 pm

so how much do you lose by selling a car that is not up to snuff? just the value of the repairs or more?

tom w
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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:10 pm

Tom W.

On GTEs it's getting better but I don't think you can get your money back on most repairs. I bet you can sell a complete GTE with lots of needs for $40 - $50k today, maybe even more. A real nice one just sold on ebay for $85k. To bring a car with needs up to the condition of the $85k car will cost a lot more than the difference in price.

In Eddie's case, assuming he is getting ready to sell it, it depends on what the rest of the car is like. If the car is really nice and just has one bad piston to make it right, then it's definately worth fixing. If the engine is the first of many things that need work, then, in my opinion, it's not worth it.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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