Off Topic: Barrett Jackson

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tyang
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Off Topic: Barrett Jackson

Post by tyang » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:42 am

Is it me, or am I the only one yelling at the TV during the Speed Channel broadcast of the Barrett Jackson Auction in Scottsdale AZ? Some of the prices paid for clones, recreations, and replicas are just rediculous! What about that Amphicar? A bad driving car, and a horrible boat, for somewhere north of $80K? What am I missing? Have baby boomers gone mad?

Tom
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:28 am

Hi Tom,

I am yelling with you. There seems to be some sort of insanity happening in the old car market. All of a sudden, if it is an old American clunker that has a new paint job and chrome, it now has become 'valuable'. Pehaps some baby boomers with too much money are trying to purchase their youth back. Well, look in the mirror, it isn't going to change, people. Last night, there was a 1959 Pontiac Safari station wagon on the block. Ugly behemoth and who cares? That Amphicar will never see water again. My concern is that, some day it may all implode and may take down the rest of us with it.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

airsanford
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Post by airsanford » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:44 pm

Once again, for anyone who missed it:

Tulip bulbs.

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Post by horner » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:52 pm

Your opinions seem to match Keith Martin's of Sports Car Market and Michael Sheehan. That is, Muscle cars and various other bits of American iron may be toppy, but there is still value in the Ferrari marketplace. LJH
Jack Horner, 1966 330 GT 2+2 Series II, s/n 8325 (x-1981 Mondial 8, s/n 36213)

Jimmyr
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Post by Jimmyr » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:55 pm

Saw a story in the local Scottsdale paper today that Martin was forceably removed from the B-J auction for speaking about the games being played there!

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Post by tyang » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:06 pm

I had an interesting conversation with Bill Pollard regarding old Ferraris, especially 308s while I was visiting his shop yesterday. His opinion is 308s are undervalued, and will one day turn around. He feels their hidden value lies in their method of construction and quality of parts. Now there are people who will argue that 308s are Fiats, but they were still manufactured with higher quality that many production cars from the same era. I may not agree with him a hundred percent (especailly 308 electrics), but I see his point. Early Ferraris were hand assembled and some were considered crude, but there is a craftsmanship that can be considered more like art, than an assembled machine. Paying similar prices for an American Production car begs the question, what are you buying? What's even more amazing is the clones that were created from a pile of parts is fetching big money. The guys I see raising their paddles are congratulated like they just made a wise decision while all I see is a misinformed buyers with more money than sense!

Tom
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tyang
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Post by tyang » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:15 pm

Saw a story in the local Scottsdale paper today that Martin was forceably removed from the B-J auction for speaking about the games being played there!
Thanks for the heads up Jim.
Here's the article:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... artin.html

Tom
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:59 pm

Tom,

I can relate to your comment about some crude workmanship in the early cars but I have to say that I'll take crude over a stamped out cookie cutter anytime. How utterly boring those 'perfect' cars are. No character whatsoever, just appliances. Give me crude and I 'll know a human being put part of his soul in building something.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

Keith Milne
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Post by Keith Milne » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:23 pm

I fell asleep twice watching the auction last night. First - Barrett Jackson is NOT a sports car crowd. A concours restored late Porsche 356B sold for $41K! That was LESS than the restoration costs - so you certainly got the car for free. Second - never use Barrett Jackson sales as a gauge for what your car is worth.

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Ethics of Auctions

Post by whturner » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:47 pm

Can someone comment regarding the responsibility of the Auction to describe the merchandice accurately. For instance, if the seller provides information which is incorrect - either out of ignorance or deception, does the auction have any responsibility to point out the error.
I would guess not - realistically they cannot be experts on everything.
But suppose the error is brought to the attention of the auction (by someone with credentials). Do they still go with the erroneous description, either in the online pre-publicity and on the block? And if so, what are, or should be, the consequences.

Cheers
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:25 am

Can someone comment regarding the responsibility of the Auction to describe the merchandice accurately. For instance, if the seller provides information which is incorrect - either out of ignorance or deception, does the auction have any responsibility to point out the error.
I would guess not - realistically they cannot be experts on everything.
But suppose the error is brought to the attention of the auction (by someone with credentials). Do they still go with the erroneous description, either in the online pre-publicity and on the block? And if so, what are, or should be, the consequences.

Cheers
Warren
Hi Warren,

Barrett Jackson seems to take the stance of "Buyer Beware!" I believe if there is a problem after the auction, it is the responsibity of the buyer and the seller to resolve the issue. The 10-18% Barret Jackson makes on these cars is for all the hype, and if you look at the auction results, people are buying into it!

Tom
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Post by Michael Bayer » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:37 am

The future of this "hot market" lies in the wrecking yards all across America, there lie not dozens or hundreds or thousands of ready hulks, there are rather hundreds of thousands of hulks ready to be returned to service. The lesson of the tulip bulb market crash is rediscovered time and time again. Perhaps that is why economics is called the dismal science.

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Off Topic: Barrett Jackson

Post by Dr. Ian Levy » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:06 pm

Hello Tom
I have watched this auction on UK television & I am amazed at the apparent insanity & behaviour of the buyers & in some cases the auctioneers. The Porsche 356B must rank as the bargain of the auction & I really do love those cars. As someone who is more accustomed to the positively staid manner in which Coys, H&H & others conduct their auctions in the UK . When you mention more money than sense of some of the buyers that is obviously not a considerable sum. Selling a grossly innacurately described iem is not acceptable or even legal & it is surely up to the Auction company to describe the item as accurately as reasonable or point out there are facts that the buyer must verify before bidding. Even though Warren says B.J. can't be experts on everyting their 10-18% commissions means they must be held to a higher standard of accountibility than a layperson.
Regards
Ian L
1972 365 GTC4 s/n 15989
http://www.ferrari365gtc4.co.uk/

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:29 pm

Hi Ian,

I am often embarrased at how fellow Americans gravitate towards larger than life productions. BJ has become the "Pro Wrestling" version of automotive auctioning! Don't get me wrong, I am proud of being American and its "can do" additude, but does it have to saturate everything we do?

The prices paid are really out of control, and I amazed how no one seems to be speaking out about it! This show smacks more of an infomercial than a show reporting on an auction.

Tom
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Dr. Ian Levy
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Off Topic: Barrett Jackson

Post by Dr. Ian Levy » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:06 pm

Hi Tom
My overriding impression of America & its people is their pride in America. In the UK that pride is /has been eroded & flying the national flag has been recently called provocative & using the word Christmas as politically incorrect.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the US its just that BJ auction makes me cringe
Regards
Ian
1972 365 GTC4 s/n 15989
http://www.ferrari365gtc4.co.uk/

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