Off Topic: Barrett Jackson

[Dr. Ian Levy]

Hello Steve
I am sorry for your painful experience & for your enlightening comments regarding their so called expert. I have heard of his name but my experience of real experts in Ferrari is that they are scare people. Your warning about unscrupulous so called reputable Auction Houses should be taken very seriously

I once tried to buy a 330 at a Coys auction in London & was able to browse through the history file for as long as I wished.I also had a good look at the car but was outbid on the day-maybe I was just lucky.
Your story smacks of sharp practise & even the buyers rules seem to be illegal but I am not an expert in foreign law. I have always asked the same question of any car I have ever bought as I am sure do others i.e." Has the car ever suffered any significant accident damage which might affect my wanting to buy it?" An answer of "no" , "or not to my knowledge"with a post auction announcemnt that the car had been involved in a frontal collision. would leave the auction house in a very weak legal position.They have either lied or knowingly concealed facts that they had in their possession, which would materially affect the value of the auction item .
Whilst I understand the reason for protecting themselves from claims about facts which they may not have, the seller should never be exempt from an attempted fraud. These guys could be in cahoots & an honest buyer could be cleaned out but I probably live in cloud cuckoo land
My advice now is to enjoy your car & put your Bonhams purchase saga down to experience
Regards
Ian L

[tyang]

The first thing I say to anyone who comes to me for advice about buying a Ferrari is to always remember, I don't care if it's Ferraris or Hondas, you're dealing with a Used Car Salesman! Trying not ot offend everyone who sells cars, there are good guys and there are bad guys, but as long as the buyer knows who's playing the game, they can approach the situation with the right mind set. The margins for profit are often thin, so there is a lot of motivation to mislead the buyer. "To the Best of my Knowledge," is a phrase they often hide behind. I've had the opportunity to hear of several PPIs that caused a sale to fall through because the seller didn't see an accident repair or the car was not as it was represented and the seller "to the best of their knowledge" thought the car was perfect. Even with a recent discovery of crash damage or speckled past, I highly doubt the seller told the next buyer what the last PPI found. It's the nature of sales!

This situation leaves me in a difficult position, as I would love to inform anyone who looks at the car after it was passed over due to a PPI, but publically announcing a problem would have lawsuits slapped on me faster than I could write a post about it! The only thing is to DO YOUR RESEARCH! If you blindly buy a car, then it's your own fault. There are a bunch of guys out there that keep records on cars. If you are buying a Ferrari, and don't know who these guys are, then you need to go back and research some more. If you don't want to do your homework and buy a car blind, I always say, it's nothing money can't fix!

Auctions, especially e-bay hardly ever leave enough time to research a car, and if you can't do your homework before the auction, understand and prepare for the risks. In the old days before the general public flooded these auctions, dealers all knew the risks, and factored that into what they would pay for a particular car, at the wholesale price. Now with uninformed buyers, and more of the general public attending these auctions, prices are now at retail prices leaving even more at risk if you make a mistake.

Tom

[Dr. Ian Levy]

As always Tom has the right persepctive.
It is buyer beware-always has been & always will be
Regards
Ian L

[afwrench]

Lots of good points, but let me offer a few interesting comments:

(1) Ian - I'm sorry mate (as someone who have lived in the UK 4 years and done business in Europe for 15 additional years) but European car fraud/greed at auctions is as prevelent as the US. My 330 America is an example of some of the greatest fraud I have ever seen -- compliments of Simon Kidston the supposed "expert" car guy at Bonham's Auction House. Bonhams has a famous Ferrari auction in Gstaad, Switzerland every Fall and they supposedly have original cars that are promoted with much hype (similar to Coys, etc.) I visited Switzerland a week before the 2003 auction as was not allowed to view the car prior to the auction. I was never given a Condition Report, nor offered one. After the bidding was over and I won the car (telephone bid back at my Texas office), the bidding assistant tells me the car has been in a frontal accident. The result is 3 years of painful restoration. I got very good Swiss/German lawyers involved but the disclaimer language in the bidding agreements are WORSE in Europe (at least Bonhams) because they not only exempt the auction house from wrong in the event the car is incorrectly described, but they require that you waive all recourse rights against the Seller too! So in other words, the auction house can be working with the Seller to represent fraudulant cars and never be prosecuted for it!! At least at BJ, RM, Kruse, and similar auctions, while the auction house wants to be exempted from liability for misrepresentation they do not restrict suing the Seller.

2) Warren - regarding the word "rare" I would agree with your points. I am amused every year at the supposed "rare" 1963-1967 Corvette 427 cars that show up. If they (and Shelby's, Z28's, etc.) are so rare, whey are there 10-20 of them every year at BJ? There were over 5,000 original Shelby's built and this is supposed to be rare? An exceptional international auction might have 2-3 Ferrari Lusso's, a couple 212's, a 375MM, 1963 GTO, etc. -- this is rare.

AUCTIONS: GREED PLAYGROUND FOR THE UNINITIATED
The problem is that the same uneducated American's that think NASCAR is motor racing also think a 1967 Shelby is worth $200,000. Barrett Jackson has done for auctions what NASCAR has done to motor racing. It has substituted cheap, media production entertainment for an honest event targeting real motorsport enthusiasts. They charge $500 to register as a bidder and had 5,000 registered bidders -- that's $2.5MM before a single car crosses the auction block. Now, I know Westworld costs money -- but not near $1MM. On top of this, BJ gets fees from Speed Channel for broadcasting rights, and then 18% combined fees on the $40MM-$60MM in cars that they sell. Not a bad payday 3-4 times per year. It is in Craig Jackson's interests to create hype and turn the car market into the Barnum & Bailey circus because as long as 60 year old businessmen gobble up whiskey, cigars, and an opportunity to impress their 30 year old girlfriend on camera -- the show must go on.

The rest of us back on planet earth can take solice in providing community for each other via meeting places like Tom's site! Craig Jackson is just excelling at marketing -- but he's hurting the long-term stability of the classic car market with fabricating so many new "collectible" models of American muscle cars. Since when did a DeSoto suddenly reach Ferrari Daytona price status? Next year, Craig will tell us that 1970 Winnebago's are the next "hot" collectible. The Von Dutch bus was a crap heap and I can't believe some idiot is going to put that in his collection. It should be used as a artificial coastal reef for fish.

Steve, you need to let go a bit . Dont hold back and keep it all inside! BTW you just had to spill the beans on the Winnebego situation.Mike

[330 America]

Mike - I'm switching back to Decaf tomorrow morning :)

Just having a little fun pointing out the obvious. Auctions are a unique phenomenon whereby demand is created and "value" is manipulated but the promoter has no liability for deals gone bad. It is truly an anamoly among standard business operating models.