WANTED: 250 GT Lusso

[330 America]

Gentlemen - after some great threads on the Lusso topic, it appears that the prices on these cars continue to push upward of $425,000 and so I'm not likely to find a good car for the budget I have allocated (defined as how much of my retirement account I am willing to plunder).

So I have accepted the fact that I am going to have to write off the Lusso idea at this point and focus on a more attainable (and arguably better performing) alternative -- the Lamborghini 350GT/400GT. Whereas it appears that Randy Simon is going to sell his black car to a local Los Angeles buyer despite a my strong offer and Bill of Sale I emailed him last night, I'm probably better served to seek a metallic color car anyway. His black car is a good driver, but Randy is pricing it like an older #1 condition restoration. Let someone else pay too much for it.

I'm taking the advice of Tom Shaughnessy, Gary Bobileff, and several other Italian car specialists this afternoon -- go for the Lambo GT. The Lambo GT is simply a better driving car (more power, independent rear suspension, lighter weight) and is frankly a "sleeper" in terms of a sexy car that few people will ever recognize. True, Ferrari will always be an icon that Lamborghini will be chasing -- but because I don't have Jay Leno's net worth, I'll simply have to wait for a "market correction" if I ever hope to buy a Lusso.

Thanks for the incredibly insightful advice (I will retain it if/when a Lusso buying opportunity arises), but for 2007 I'm going to focus on getting a really good 350 or 400 GT and having some fun with it until my 330 America emerges complete.

[jsa330]

Good decision to go for the 350/400 Lambo, Steve...but to find another one in as nice shape, talk about a needle in a haystack.

I had wondered how you were doing with the America...hope you will bring it out to some local events.

[Yale]

Here are some:

http://www.carclassic.com/stock.asp?Ref=DU38&Lang=en

<a href="http://www.classicdriver.de/uk/find/410 ... ve">Lambos for sale</a>

When it comes to price it seems to me we are all constantly behind the curve. You always want to pay what the cars used to cost and decide when the car hits a certain price point that you better move soon but by that point the price on the next cars have already gone up. A Muira just sold for 800,000 and a one off Muira for over a mill. All Lambos are going up now. Yale

[330 America]

Thanks Yale -- if a car is on the Internet, I can find it because I've got 10-15 European sites Bookmarked. I also use www.mobile.de (the Autotrader of Europe) in case you want to add this to your browser Bookmarks.

I've already emailed Movendi and I have a colleage in Cologne, Germany who can check this car out. If you read the description of the red car you note it has serious problems (the leather is very tired looking also) and it is a 2+2. I'm really wanting a 350GT and would consider a 2+2 only if a spectacular car pops up for a reasonable price.

I realize what you are saying re: price but I also collect other marques such as Porsche and I view car collecting like investing in real estate. That is, you "move in & out" of various classes of assets depending on what the market is doing. You move in during depressed prices, and move out during price peaks (profit taking). I don't believe these Ferrari's are going to escalate indefinitely at this pace (I might be in the minority). The market is overheated so we all have to pick & choose our spots.

I've got an opportunity to buy an ultra-rare RUF Porsche for $90,000 (Seller doesn't know what he has when the car cost $235K in 1994) so this is an example of a good buying opportunity while I patiently wait on a Lambo 350GT...............or who knows, even the Lusso!

[Tom Wilson]

I view car collecting like investing in real estate. That is, you "move in & out" of various classes of assets depending on what the market is doing. You move in during depressed prices, and move out during price peaks (profit taking).

That can be true, but many of us come from the "buy and hold" philosophy on our cars. I have the same philosophy for my real estate. If you purchase a good product initially, its sale value may go up and down throughout the years, but the overall trend tends to be up. So not only do you get a long term increasing asset, you also get to enjoy having it for all that time.

[330 America]

Ah.....so true, so true.

I guess with limited resources, we all have to make trade-offs as to how many cars we can invest in. If a guy has $400,000 tied up in a single Ferrari but sees 3 other cars at $200K, $100K and $100K available -- each with good upside, then the decision becomes whether to keep/enjoy the 1 Ferrari (as you say) and ride an overall upward trend, or to move your cash into 3 cars (each appreciating) and then have 3 cars to enjoy.'

Aren't' these dilemma's great?!

[Art S.]

Steve,

One minor comment: you mentioned the Lambo GT having IRS; I'm pretty sure IRS started with the Islero S (I could be wrong though).

Regards,

Art S.

[330 America]

Art - IRS was standard in these cars; see:

http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/350GT/index.html

Steve

[Yale]

Thanks Yale -- if a car is on the Internet, I can find it because I've got 10-15 European sites Bookmarked. I also use www.mobile.de (the Autotrader of Europe) in case you want to add this to your browser Bookmarks.

I've already emailed Movendi and I have a colleage in Cologne, Germany who can check this car out. If you read the description of the red car you note it has serious problems (the leather is very tired looking also) and it is a 2+2. I'm really wanting a 350GT and would consider a 2+2 only if a spectacular car pops up for a reasonable price.

I realize what you are saying re: price but I also collect other marques such as Porsche and I view car collecting like investing in real estate. That is, you "move in & out" of various classes of assets depending on what the market is doing. You move in during depressed prices, and move out during price peaks (profit taking). I don't believe these Ferrari's are going to escalate indefinitely at this pace (I might be in the minority). The market is overheated so we all have to pick & choose our spots.

I've got an opportunity to buy an ultra-rare RUF Porsche for $90,000 (Seller doesn't know what he has when the car cost $235K in 1994) so this is an example of a good buying opportunity while I patiently wait on a Lambo 350GT...............or who knows, even the Lusso!

Well, from this post I assume you are looking for a Ferrari or Lambo "where someone doesn't know what he has." You're looking for the big score, buy low, sell high, that sort of thing. Arbitrage and all like the big money guys. Luckily you can move in and out of your real estate assets while driving your car assets all at the same time. She-yit man, a bunch of us folks were just driving and enjoying these cars not even knowing they were investi-ments. Mmm I love the smell of 1989 in the morning. Yale

[jsa330]

Well, from this post I assume you are looking for a Ferrari or Lambo "where someone doesn't know what he has." You're looking for the big score, buy low, sell high, that sort of thing. Arbitrage and all like the big money guys. Luckily you can move in and out of your real estate assets while driving your car assets all at the same time. She-yit man, a bunch of us folks were just driving and enjoying these cars not even knowing they were investi-ments. Mmm I love the smell of 1989 in the morning. Yale

Heh heh...you nailed it. I've met Steve personally, saw his America when he first got it, and corresponded with him at length about our respective cars and restoration questions; he's basically a very decent fellow, but his personality is the ultimate type-A wheeler-dealer control-freak type, outstanding even in an area of the USA that abounds with these.

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

I see these cars as your basic 401(k), IRA and Roth IRA all in one. They certainly currently have better performance in the market than your typical retirement plans and you can actually enjoy them for the duration versus staring at a monthly investment summary. Every investment is a risk, but why not have some fun in the meantime? Worst case, you still recoup the funds you put into a car versus a total stock loss on something that became worthless. Been there already and that road is closed forever.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[jsa330]

Well, from this post I assume you are looking for a Ferrari or Lambo "where someone doesn't know what he has." You're looking for the big score, buy low, sell high, that sort of thing. Arbitrage and all like the big money guys. Luckily you can move in and out of your real estate assets while driving your car assets all at the same time. She-yit man, a bunch of us folks were just driving and enjoying these cars not even knowing they were investi-ments. Mmm I love the smell of 1989 in the morning. Yale

Heh heh...you nailed it. I've met Steve personally, saw his America when he first got it, and corresponded with him at length about our respective cars and restoration questions; he's basically a very decent fellow, but his personality is the ultimate type-A wheeler-dealer control-freak type, outstanding even in an area of the USA that abounds with these.

Well...too much wine on Valentine's day. :(

I'd like to apologize to Steve for my thoughtlessly-stated comments, and hope that he will forgive me. His business acumen is only to his credit, and our personal interactions have been most friendly.

Scott Amis
Dallas, TX

[John Vardanian]

From experience, aside from both being Italian, the two cars have very little in common. The 250’s engine responds is like if you were pressing the pedal of a sewing machine. It is that tight and the revs rise and fall with that degree of abruptness. The Lusso, in comparison, is stiff and agile, and pretty hyper active.

I do not know about the 350GT, but the 400GT is powerful. But, it is kind of a lumpy muscle car-like powerful. The engine revs up and down kind of like large displacement 1970’s American engines.

Thus, if the driving experience is a factor, the would-be buyer ought to sample both. I realize the Lusso may be way overpriced, but there may be more driving satisfaction in a 250GTE than an early Lambo.

john

[davidoloan]

I see these cars as your basic 401(k), IRA and Roth IRA all in one. They certainly currently have better performance in the market than your typical retirement plans and you can actually enjoy them for the duration versus staring at a monthly investment summary. Every investment is a risk, but why not have some fun in the meantime? Worst case, you still recoup the funds you put into a car versus a total stock loss on something that became worthless. Been there already and that road is closed forever.

While I respect your opinion, I think it’s not smart to “invest” in cars.

Booms in niche markets happen, and when the market is a hobby market which has realized in some cases 100% appreciation over two years, you have to very careful assuming your paper gains are real. Unless you sell now.

Booming market always run out of steam, prices always drop. That said the boom could continue for years.

I am planning a car project that I know will be worth a lot less than it market value. But it’s a hobby only, even though people are suggesting the target car is a candidate for appreciation.

I want a Daytona and was prepared to buy at the price levels of two years ago. With the over 100% increase, I have the money back in my business even though the Daytona may still appreciate because the business gains are real and sustainable.

Tell me for certain if you put $800,000 into a Muira SV it won’t be worth $400,000 in 5 years. Of course it could be worth $2,000,000. Its speculation. Buy them if you love them, and only use the money you can afford to lose.

While Steve does seem to invest in cars I respect his setting his maximum and not buying if he doesn’t think its long term prudent even in this blue skies market.

[330 America]

Now this is the kind of exchange that is fun to write & observe.

JSA - no problem with the comments because I am indeed a Type A, but most successful entrepreneurs are.

I think what all of the commentary boils down to is that we are all unique personalities with unique/different views about classic cars. Some guys on this bulletin board may have a $25MM net worth (or more) and having a couple $500,000 cars sitting around the garage like old, unused tennis rackets, doesn't get missed because when you've got a multi-million dollar investment portfolio plus millions in real estate holdings, that $1MM does matter much in the grand scheme. I hope to be "there" one day -- but despite being financially secure -- I'm not in the $25MM club. The fact that I can even consider a $400,000 car purchase makes me feel like I've done pretty well financially at only 42 years old.

So, on one hand "yes" l'd like to just drop the cash and drive the Lusso and forget about what I paid or what the values are -- but responsible people (let alone us Type A, Finance MBA's) don't tend to think that way. If I really wanted to live dangerously, I simply dig deeper into my retirement account and buy a 275GTB/4 and then overcome the problem of needing to rev the Lusso into the high RPM range, etc. (this is the car my wife loves most)

But when I look at the faces of my 5 and 8 year old children across the dinner table at night, the reality of my responsibility as a father and husband hit home. This isn't "all about me" and what I want. This is about balancing a passion for fine automobiles with the responsibilities of living in an uncertain world. So while I'm not trying to get all philosophical on everyone, I started this post to simply obtain some good advice on the most expensive car purchase I will have made in this lifetime (and I've owned some pretty sweet cars). I feel as though I have acquired some good advice -- and so I'm going to fly to Florida to drive the silver/black Lusso listed in the Ferrari Market Letter to resolve the debate over whether the Lusso has the torque of a kitchen blender, or it will even drive as well as my 330 America.

Tom Yang probably summed it up best when he said "You will likely stare at the Lusso the most in your garage, but drive the 330 America most on the roads." Tom feels pretty strongly that the 330A is more "driveable" with the lower-end torque and more grunt of the 4.0 litre engine. Not taking anything away from the Lusso, but as pretty as it is -- if the big steering wheel and lack of low-end power means it doesn't produce a spirited feeling when driving it -- then it may not make sense for me. That is why the 350GT (yes it revs more like an American V8), might be a better driving car for cruising the Texas Hill Country and visiting wine tours -- heck, at least it has the 5th gear in it. I'll know the answer in the next 15 days. You guys have to remember I have a lot of years of seat time driving/racing Porsche's so my points of comparison are skewed.

Anyway, if the good Lord will enable me to buy both over the next couple years (the 350GT and the Lusso) then I've just settled the matter. This simply going to come down to one scenario -- what is the best car that is available to purchase at the time I'm ready to buy? I'm going to continue to investigate both options.

thanks gentlemen