WANTED: 250 GT Lusso

[tyang]

Tom Yang probably summed it up best when he said "You will likely stare at the Lusso the most in your garage, but drive the 330 America most on the roads." Tom feels pretty strongly that the 330A is more "driveable" with the lower-end torque and more grunt of the 4.0 litre engine. Not taking anything away from the Lusso, but as pretty as it is -- if the big steering wheel and lack of low-end power means it doesn't produce a spirited feeling when driving it -- then it may not make sense for me. That is why the 350GT (yes it revs more like an American V8), might be a better driving car for cruising the Texas Hill Country and visiting wine tours -- heck, at least it has the 5th gear in it. I'll know the answer in the next 15 days. You guys have to remember I have a lot of years of seat time driving/racing Porsche's so my points of comparison are skewed.

Don't get me wrong. Lussos are probably more nimble than a 330 America, but for Steve's use in the wide open spaces of Texas, a 330 America with a 5th gear overdrive, it's better suited. After visiting Palm Beach Florida, I felt that having a car that does well in the curves must be frustrating when most of the roads in south Florida are straight.

Tom

[Art S.]

Steve,

First off - the lusso will go in your living room as a piece of sculpture so pick a color your wife likes... ;)

I don't think it's necessarily a drivability issue between the Lusso and the Lambo. It's more about how you drive the cars. The 3 liter motors need to be wound up to perform but once you wind them up they really go.

I remember Steve M.'s dad telling me about dynoing a 250 Coupe motor from a car built for a special customer (sn 1007, I think). It put out 295 HP at a little over 7k RPM. However, at 3.5K RPM, it put out 35 HP. (Steve M. please correct me if I have mixed up my facts).

The America (and 330s in general) don't have this problem while maintaining the much of the Ferrari character. I'm curious if the Lambo is as dumpy as everyone is saying because of its design or because very few are properly set up.

Regards,

Art S.

[davidoloan]

I remember Steve M.'s dad telling me about dynoing a 250 Coupe motor from a car built for a special customer (sn 1007, I think). It put out 295 HP at a little over 7k RPM. However, at 3.5K RPM, it put out 35 HP. (Steve M. please correct me if I have mixed up my facts).

The America (and 330s in general) don't have this problem while maintaining the much of the Ferrari character. I'm curious if the Lambo is as dumpy as everyone is saying because of its design or because very few are properly set up.

Regards,

Art S.

Hi Art,

Unfortunately I haven’t driven a 250 V12, but you refer to the low torque and power accessible only at high revs as a problem.

I don’t think it is. My experience with BMW straight sixes
1) 340 bhp 3.8 litre power at high revs & high torque at low revs
2) 150 bhp 2.0 litre power at high revs & very little torque or power at low revs

The 3.8L is fantastic, but the 2.0L is much creamier, and you have to drive the car more. On twisty roads the 2.0 is fun, you have to use the gears all the time, change down before every corner, be ready to power out. Very satisfying. With the 3.8 you can make quick progress which will be arguably more fun when you drive hard, but in the 2.0 its more of a challenge to make quick progress, and because the engine revs so smoothly and quickly and sounds so good doing its work and gears are good, its very nearly as much fun as the 3.8.

The most important thing for this type of engine is that the car is light weight. And any Ferrari from this era is light compared to today’s cars. I think what Tom Yang said about the road types you use the car in is more important when choosing which type of engine you prefer. On long straights, you will appreciate that low down pull for regular small speed changes. On our twisty roads if I was lucky enough to drive a 250 I bet I would find the power and torque being at high revs a lot of fun.

[330 America]

Art - good comments :) Aren't all vintage Ferrari's "art on wheels?"

I've driven some older Ghibli's, etc. and some of the Lambo and Maserati's do feel somewhat heavy, even with 340HP+ engines. The one thing to remember about the Lambo 350GT is "Superleggera" (super lightweight) bodies. A mere 1050kg (2310 pounds)! By race car standards this is freakin' lightweight -- even 100 pounds lighter than the Daytona Prototypes driven at the Rolex 24 Hour race 2 weeks ago.

This weight savings means that even at a mere 270HP, the 350GT should drive fairly nicely (remember, that's less weight to turn, or stop under braking). I've seen 3 different weights listed for the Lusso, but the lightest is 1020kg and if we accept that figure as accurate, then the Lambo (on paper) has better HP/weight -- so I can't imagine it is a complete pig -- but as you say, set up is key (particularly with 6 carburetors as opposed to the Lusso's 3).

I don't want to start a barn storm debate on which is the better car -- because "better" is difficult to define. The Ferrari marque will always be more valuable than Lamborghini's. However, the question is the value trade-off of $200K vs. $450K (investment potential, driveability, etc.) and what could I do with the $250K I save (buy a Daytona? Buy a 250PF Coupe? etc.)

Maybe some guys with bigger car collections than mine will chime in on the driveability issue of which one brings the bigger smile to the face. Anyway, both are fine cars in their own right -- so this is like a 25 year oldl guy picking between Jessica Simpson and Carmen Electra -- something tells me he'll have a smile on his face either way :)

[Art S.]

Steve,

I can't tell you what to buy. Personally, I'd buy what feels the best for me (combination of looks & driving experience). I get a stupid grin on my face when I drive my lowly 330, if the Lambo does it for you then go for that. For investment purposes, buy a barn and fill it with '80s Ferrari TRs.

By the way, the superleggara effects the performance numbers but the 'feel' of the car may be different. I've heard that although the new Bugatti has outstanding performance numbers, isn't particularly interesting to drive (not that I've ever driven one).


David,

I think your BMW analogy applies relatively well to our discussion. My version would be the E-30 M3 vs. the E-36 M3.

Regards to both,

Art S.

[330 America]

Art - maybe the best analogy is that of a pair of Italian shoes. If they feel good & look good -- buy 'em. I'm a Ferragamo guy myself :)

I'm going to fly to Florida to check out the Lusso for myself. A drive in traffic and then getting up to speed on a freeway will tell me all I need to know.

[Art S.]

Steve,

If there is such a thing in FL, take it out on some twisties.

Regards,

Art S.

[afwrench]

Steve, do yourself a favor and ignore both Carmen and Jessica! Both no doubt require more maintainence than either a Ferrari or Lambo. Mike

[Art S.]

Mike,

The Ferrari and Lambo probably have higher IQs as well.

Regards,

Art S.

[tyang]

Steve, do yourself a favor and ignore both Carmen and Jessica! Both no doubt require more maintainence than either a Ferrari or Lambo. Mike

...and will not age as gracefully as the Lusso or Lambo. Give these girls forty years of age and see if middle aged men still lust for them in the same way as we do for a Lusso.

Tom

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

Interesting comments. The Ferrari and Lambo specialist that I have dealt with in the past made an interesting comment to me regarding the Lusso. It was his least desirable Ferrari to drive of all the models he has encountered over all his years in the business. I was a bit surprised at this, but 'only' having a GTE, I did not pursue the point.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[330 America]

Tom/Art - you obviously missed the "25 year old guy" qualifier on the Carmen/Jessica comment. I'm 42 and happily married 15 years..... :) Does anyone remember Bridgit Bardot or Ursula Andress?

I talked with the seller of the Florida Lusso about 15 minutes ago to confirm a meeting next week but he's flying to NY to meet a client who wants to trade a F360 and Daytona Coupe for the Lusso. The Seller doesn't want to do the deal, but is going to look at the cars because the guy making the offer is a good client of his. So I'm getting a call back on Wednesday to let me know if the Lusso is gone or not. If its still available, I'll fly to Ft. Lauderdale and then drive to Boca Raton for the test drive and thorough photographing so we can see what we really have under the skin.

Stay tuned.......

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

Bardot, Andress,.....Cleopatra?

Could be a 'Jeopardy' fossil category.


Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[mikewegener]

This is the best thread ever! It is like a microcosm of our car collecting world with all in players represented.
Thank you Steve for letting us share in your quest!
Mike

[Tom Wilson]

I get a stupid grin on my face when I drive my lowly 330

Art - I have driven your 330 and there is nothing "lowly" about it. It was a blast!

I'm 42 and happily married 15 years..... :) Does anyone remember Bridgit Bardot or Ursula Andress?

Steve - Now you are really making me feel ancient. I am only 5 years older than you and I was thinking Ingred Bergman (a Ferrari Afficianado) and Gretta Garbo!

This is the best thread ever!

Mike - I couldn't agree more. We are all united in a love for the greatest piece of "art on wheels", but for different reasons. Some love the idea of a piece of machinery that was made better than it needed to be; some love it for the way it handles on the "twisty turneys" and some for the way it would look in the living room. All this and a decent investment to boot! Where else but Tom's Ferrari site can you find such a group of people that come for different reasons and still agree? Drop by the next gathering and we can continue this discussion over a nice glass of wine...