WANTED: 250 GT Lusso

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airsanford
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Post by airsanford »

My uncle owns Lusso #5931, the 9th to the last one built. He's had it since 1981, and I've done some of the maintenence work over the years, and also driven it extensively, perhaps more than he has. He has a 1969 Porsche 911E, the Ferrari, and a '67 Jag E roadster. I drove all 3 on the same day recently, and it was an interesting experience.

The Porsche is a two litre with mechanical fuel injection. It makes all its power via RPM- very little torque at all, starts to pull above 3000 rpm, and goes like a house afire from 4500 to 7300. The car is very light and almost feline in its handling.

The Ferrari has noticeably more torque, and pulls hard from idle to 7000. As you fellows know, there's no redline on the tach, and the engine seems to still have plenty left at that speed, but since I'll have to fix it if something lets go, 7K seems the better part of valor for a stopping point.
The car is notably heavier than the Porsche, but lightens up and really seems to come alive above 100 mph.

The Jag was a real suprise. I've had little experience with them over the years, so had no preconcieved notions beforehand. It is a 4.2 litre inline six, and likely has as much torque as the Porsche and Ferrari combined. The car seems as fast as a bullet to me, and was a very fun drive. That being said, my runaway favorite is still the Ferrari. It seems to do everything pretty well, and there's art under the hood.

The Ferrari is a deceptively small car, and your knuckles will touch the windshield at the top of the steering wheel on occasion. I'm 6'1" and 240+ but I have never had a problem getting comfortable in the car.

Best of luck in the quest- I assure you, you won't regret having a Lusso. It perhaps requires a certain mindset- be willing to adapt to the machine, rather than trying to adapt it to yourself.

Lee, GTE 2811
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330 America
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Post by 330 America »

Guys - I should have clarified why I even raised the "investment" issue to begin with. Because I run my own business I am able to to take out an occasional bonus to buy a unique car now and again. Usually, these are cars in the $40K-$100K range (Porsche Speedster, Boss 302, etc.) However, I don't just have $400K "laying around" as discretionary money whereby if I invest it in Lusso and the market went flat, that I could write off the lost appreciation of capital (we can recoup a lot of things in life, but we can't recoup time). So in this case, it means busting into my invested retirement account funds on the gamble that I drive the car for X years and enjoy it, but hopefully, I still generate an acceptable level of appreciation and there is a ready/liquid market to sell the car, "if" I needed the cash later.

For some of the more affluent guys on this thread who have $400K in a cookie jar as discretionary funds, they probably don't have to think thru the investment aspect of this type of purchase. Instead, it is simply a matter of "if you like the car -- buy it and who cares about the ROI!" When the Lusso was at $200K -- I could have taken the "who cares" approach and this thread would be non-existent. At $400K, it has reached my pain threshold so reason has now emerged to balance the emotion of the purchase.

I didn't want readers thinking that every classic car I've purchased required some sort of intensified ROI calculation -- because these are emotional purchases and that would take the fun out of it. It is the emotion of the Lusso's lines that have captivated my attention -- but the reality of where I'd have to pull the cash to buy it has necessitated the ROI discussion and driveability assessment.

I hope this makes sense to everyone.
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold
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Art S.
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Post by Art S. »

Steve,

I understand where you are coming from. In my case, I could not look at my car as an investment (I tried), it takes away from the driving experience.

The market is in flux, presently going up rapidly, but there are may factors that could make it reverse direction. Remember, Ferraris are not a key part of the economy, they are toys. This make the investment speculative.

In 1988 my neighbor was offered $1M for a 365 California that he bought in 1972 for $10K and used as his daily driver for many years. He chose not to sell. The 365 Californias are finally starting to the $1M mark again (almost 20 years later).

All of this being said, you can make a lot of money in vintage cars if you time the market correctly and pick the right car.


Tom W,

Thanks for the complement!

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919
jsa330
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Post by jsa330 »

Steve...thanx for not taking my uncomplimentary rant personally. I'm a B with maybe 20% A mixed in; whatever professional/financial success I've had is kind of in spite of myself.

Comfort level here...about 100 grand, and that's stretching hard...is discretionary, anything beyond that is forbidden plundering.

Speaking of cars, with $400K I'd be looking at a 275 or 330 GTS rather than the Lusso...the 2-seat roadster factor and maybe these cars have more potential upside than a Lusso? I particularly like the 275, both for aesthetic reasons and it looks to be at a somewhat more realistic price level.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
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mikewegener
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Post by mikewegener »

Tom - Thanks for the invite. I would enjoy meeting other members of Tom's west coast gang.

Lusso - For me it is the most wonderful but also unobtainable goal - I will have to settle for a 250GTE .....A year ago I joined this forum because I felt that it was time to own a Ferrari. Having owned and/or driven pretty much anything from England, Germany and the US I was and still am longing for something that symbolizes elegance, technical excitement and something else that I like to call "vintage california". The car I was most familiar with is the 250GTE and I must confess that I did not really care about 70s and up italian cars because of their tasteless design and the horrible Don Johnson type push your sleeves up past your elbows crowd.
Anyway, I digress, getting involved in Ferraris meant looking at books, road & track tests and every vintage picture I could find. The one car that stands out having the most "vintage california" appeal is the Lusso. It just looks like it was made for southern california. It has movie star looks, a crazy dash and is the type of car somebody really cool would drive to the races in and then compete on a Triumph motorcycle like Steve McQueen did.
To me it is THE ultimate Ferrari and therefore the ultimate quest.

Steve - I understand that the more you have the more you want to secure that status quo but It seems to me that you are able to afford it if you are willing to just take the plunge. I know a lot of blue collar guys who spend nearly everything they make on their cars and I do not think that you are anywhere near that percentage. It sounded like you "rationalized" yourself out of buying that nice 350 GT because deep down inside you know that you are able to knock on that Lusso door. A 330 America family car and a Lusso to enjoy by yourself sounds like automotive heaven to me. Maybe it is time to thin down the herd and focus on single make collecting.
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

I also have a 4.2 litre E type and concurr with airsanford on his assessment. It is a remarkably quick car with lots of torque. However, for the 'twisties' it is not the car for me. Stirling Moss made reference to the E-type as being "the dumb blonde of sports cars", which may seem a bit harsh. I happen to like blondes a lot but the GTE would win out as the overall driver car for me. I also like the low production numbers of the GTE versus all the E-types that were stamped out by the thousands.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
abrent
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Post by abrent »

hi guy's,

Not to point the finger at anyone in particular, but I thougth that some posts on this thread are bagging the lambo's unjustly.
The 350GT was the inspiration from Lamborghini, a successfull manufacturer at the time, based on his less than impressed encounter with Enzo and one of the 250GT's. It's a car that will outrun and outhandle a pf coupe/GTE easily, and has "newer" technology in construction and design than either.
The Muria is Ferocious in it's acelleration, and a rolling work of art as is the 400GT, in both the bodywork and the castings under the respective hoods - like of course most Ferrari of the time period.
A countach feels like it's carved out of a block of steel - no flex, or squeeks, just like a modern 911.

I think these cars are under appricated, and most people seem to focus on the shortcomings rather than the positives. Imagine if we all ran around and said "don't buy a GTE because they rust" - or - "the Lusso is crap because it's only a 4 speed". No-one would listen, but mention that "the nose lifts on a Muria at 100 MPH" and we all nod and say "gee - I guess I won't buy one of those then".


sorry for hte spellinng.

LAter.
jsa330
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Post by jsa330 »

I get a chuckle when reading about the shortcomings of the early production 2+2's...for the 330 2+2, the 4 speed +OD is conspicuously cited as one of the worst. This used to be often said this about the GTE/America but now that this model is entering into revered status it doesn't seem to matter any more, much less so on an icon such as the Lusso.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
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330 America
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Post by 330 America »

Dear Abrent - when you see demand disappear for the Muira's such that the prices collapse, let me know because the Muira SV is one of the 5 sexiest cars of all time in my book (and was just rated THE most beautiful design of all time by a recent motorsport magazine). I'll buy one on the spot, despite their "hot" cabin due to the rear engine design. And being under 6' tall -- I'll fit in it like a glove. I regret buying Muira a few years ago even more than the Lusso -- because as blasphemous as it may sound, I find the Muira perhaps an even more timeless/masculine design. Indeed this might open up a really interesting debate of "Muira vs. Lusso" -- which is the better buy?

Since we're all communicating on a Ferrari chat site (and are Ferrari loyalists), I believe there is a natural tendency to emphasize the positives of Ferrari and "poo poo" the other marques. With Ferrari's success in grand prix racing, F1, etc. over the years I can understand how this happens. But if you compare technology, design, performance of the 1960's -- Lamborghini outshines Ferrari in many "head to head" comparisons. I'm sorry for those owning the 1964-1967 330 GT 2+2's or the later 1960's 365 2+2's -- but the Lambo 400GT 2+2 and the unsuing Islero is a much more beautiful and advanced car. You could even argue that Ferrari stole the Islero design from the 1960's to build their 400i model in the 1970's (I love the 400i & 412i) and have long toy'd with the idea of buying a good one.

Back to the Lusso situation, the good news is that I've located a Lusso in my local area that is not currently on the market, but the car is being readied for a possible sale at a RM Auction. I'm going to see it on Monday and hopefully get a test drive shortly thereafter (the car is being tuned/freshened up). If the car is excellent, then I may make an offer to hopefully intercept the car from being another auction statistic.
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold
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330 America
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Post by 330 America »

Ooops....typo in my previous post.

I meant to say that I regret NOT buying a Muira a few year ago (I don't own one currently).
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold
Jimmy Chen Shiba
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Concurr

Post by Jimmy Chen Shiba »

Steve: I must wholeheartedly concurr with you on the Miura. It is a timeless classic. Such a macho icon. Have you ever had the opportunity to drive one ? Seeing that rear view of side mounted engine stacks behind your back and imused in that roaring V12 engine blast is an experience so different from a Ferrari. This engine layout amplifies the sound to such a level that would make you think that a Ferrari is a "gentle" car in comparison. Absolute delight and experience to drive this bull. There's nothing quite like it. Jimmy
1969 Dino 246 GT Tipo L #0508; 1973 365 GT4 BB #17585; 1970 365 GTB4 Daytona #13745; 1966 275 GTB 3carb all alloy longnose #08191; and few others
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Lusso in France

Post by Jimmy Chen Shiba »

I believe there is a blue Lusso for sale by www.thomashanmannclassiccars for $415,000. This should be within your budget range. Good luck. Jimmy
1969 Dino 246 GT Tipo L #0508; 1973 365 GT4 BB #17585; 1970 365 GTB4 Daytona #13745; 1966 275 GTB 3carb all alloy longnose #08191; and few others
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330 America
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Post by 330 America »

Jimmy - thanks. I've spoken to Thomas about it as the car is in the UK but does not belong to Tom. I've talked to the current owner and offered to see the car once it is in the USA (sometime in March) and potentially make an offer. Tom Yang has reviewed about 20 pictures of the car that I received and while it has many small items that are not concours correct, it is indeed a good candidate "driver" so we'll see what happens.

Thanks a bunch for thinking of me .... there's also a nice silver/black Lambo 350GT at Movendi (Germany) but I've made multiple inquiries and they won't get back to me on the car.
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold
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Art S.
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Post by Art S. »

Steve,

In case you haven't seen it, there is a nice looking Lusso at Fantacy Junction. Same color combo as my car!

Image

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919
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330 America
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Post by 330 America »

Thanks Art.....This is a very nice car indeed. I got a PM from John Vardanian 3 weeks ago tipping me to this car before it went to Fantasy Junction as it belongs to John's friend. However, the owner went ahead and gave it to FJ to sell, so obviously the price has now gone up to cover FJ's fees. Even if they took $430K-$440K for it, it is outside what I can afford. I've got another 6.25% registration tax in Texas so even at $400K, I've gotta pay another $25K to the state (plus shipping costs of the car). At $440K -- I'd end up being out of pocket about $470K in total (ouch).....

I'm going to pursue the Sera Blue/Tan car coming to the USA and a silver/black car that I've recently learned about that is priced under $400K.

Like I've said to everyone, if I can't get a good car at the price point I'm looking at -- I'll simply move on.
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold
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