365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

[tyang]

Hi A.D.,

When you put the heads back on, did you make sure the various o-rings and seals between the timing chest and heads lined up correctly? A light smear of silicone sealant on the seals insure a water tight and oil tight seal. If an o-ring gets cut during installation, oil and water will leak profusely once the engine is started. A few thin pieces of sheet metal are used to in between the heads and the timing chest to hold the seals in place as the heads are lowered in place. I know you're probably past this point, but you have one more chance to see if the seals are correctly in place before you torque the heads down. Once the head gaskets are torqued down, they're not re-useable.

Make sure the timing marks line up on both camshafts line up with the front bearing cap when the engine is set to #1 TDC. Check for alignment before everything is tightened down, and after. Sometimes as things are tightened, the slack in the chain will make things move around. Make sure the timing chain is taught and there is no slack in between the sprockets. Don't forget to check the tension on the tensioner.

BE VERY CAREFUL when working near the open timing case. We try to remember to stuff a rag in the timing case to catch an errant nut or chain clip that can fall down inside the timing case. You don't want to try fishing something out of there with a magnet, or worse, have something stay and get jammed in the timing chain at a later date.

Before installing the valve covers, check the sealing surfaces for flatness. Now is the time to sand some material off the covers to seal against the head.

Good luck!

Tom

[Jim Wickstead]

Hi A.D.

A big moment after a long process.

Just to underline something Tom said, pull the engine through a couple of times after the tensioner is tightened. Then recheck the timing marks. I've always been amazed how the best made plans need rethinking after this critical step.

Good luck!

Jim W.

[A.D.]

Hi Guys,

Have run into a problem.Have not yet started the engine.

When the radiator was refitted, found that water was leaking back into the engine.

Enclosing a photograph with a pointer aimed at the problem area.

The engine shop has suggested using titanium putty-i was a little unsure so i have asked him to hold until i get your input.

Any ideas or suggestions on how i could fix this problem?

[A.D.]

here is the picture

[AndrewW-G]

Hi A.D.

Is the leak by the camshaft carriers in the heads? I can’t quite make it out from your pic, if so then it looks like your head gasket hasn’t sealed the cooling system properly, not an uncommon problem with these cars, I believe that Dr Levy posted about a similar issue on this site some time ago.

if it is this, sorry to say but you'll have to pull the heads again you may find it easier in the long run to offer Tom a ticket to India etc in return for a couple of days help putting your engine back together

[A.D.]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your quick response.

the earlier pix had a close up of the problem area-

ctmpphp6VhCLq.jpg (55.97 KiB) Viewed 11729 times

each head has three of these :

I am enclosing another pix of the entire head.

full engine head small image.jpg (70.74 KiB) Viewed 11728 times

Have no idea how to fix this problem.

Titanium Putty dosnt sound right.

Please please tell me what to do! Was so excited about starting the engine next week.

Best

[AndrewW-G]

Ahhhh can see where its leaking from now

Remove bolt,
Apply plenty of thread lock to bolt
Replace and Torque to factor specs!

[AndrewW-G]

oooh and just to be on the safe side you may want to check that the cooling system isnt being presurised or leaking coolant into the oil

[A.D.]

Hi Andrew,

What is the purpose of these bolts? I have been told that these are bolts that were used to flush the cooling system-is that correct?

We tried opening them but they seem completely locked (as in rusted and locked into place due to not being opened ).An option would be to drill them out but it would be putting the heads in danger of getting damaged.

That is when we came up with idea of Titanium Putty

Completely lost and dscouraged now.

[AndrewW-G]

Dont get discouraged, its just another learning experience

Before putting a great big extension bar on them, you may want to wait until somebody else knows a clever way around this rather than my cruder way of just heating em up and swinging on them

the way I look at it is, they were screwed in there and will therefore screw out...................just a matter of finding out a way of doing this that wont end up with damaged heads

[tyang]

Hi Andrew,

What is the purpose of these bolts? I have been told that these are bolts that were used to flush the cooling system-is that correct?

We tried opening them but they seem completely locked (as in rusted and locked into place due to not being opened ).An option would be to drill them out but it would be putting the heads in danger of getting damaged.

That is when we came up with idea of Titanium Putty

Completely lost and dscouraged now.

Hi A.D.,

These bolts may also block the cooling passages from the original casting process. I'll ask Francois when I go to work tomorrow if he has any suggestions. We have a couple heads at the shop that I can take a look at to see if there are any solutions.

I don't think the putty will work because you'll be patching the leak from the outside of the leak. If coolant is making it past the threads of the plug, no amount of patching will stop the leak from around the outside of the bolt. Add the heating and contracting of the different materials and the patch will soon fall off.

Is the coolant pouring out of the area, or weeping out? I'm assuming it's coming out once the radiator was filled?

There is a last resort option if we exhaust all the other solutions, so don't worry. A dirty little secret among engine builders is the successful use of Bars Stop Leak in weeping leaks. It all depends on what kind of leak you have. If it's leaking past the threads of that plug, we'll figure it out.

Look on the bright side, you found this issue before you put the valve covers on, filled the cooling system, and fired up the engine. I consider this good luck. Don't despair. Just remember, if this was easy, everyone in India would own an old Ferrari!

I'll get back to you.

Tom

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

A.D.

The founder of Honda motors claimed that, "Success is comprised of 99% failure".
I'd say thet you are almost there, this can be cured, so do not give up just yet.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[josh]

On my dino, some previous owner has TIG welded similar plugs up completely. I imagine it was a similar situation, where they couldn't remove them. It's not a particularly attractive repair, but as a last resort.. I'd try other things first though

--Josh

[Timo]

Hi A.D.
It appears, to me at least, that these "problem" items are indeed, as Tom Y. suggested, cap plugs (perhaps with tapered "pipe" thread) separating oil and coolant areas of the head and were meant to plug off the said areas after the original casting processes.
IMO, to properly seal them, the plugs require removal, cleaning of threads (perhaps with proper tap and die) and then re-install with quality thread sealant.
To remove the plugs, You may have to heat the aluminum around them slightly with acetylene torch set almost to a sharp blue flame (or heat the plug quickly, until almost red, and then let it cool off for about 30 to 60 seconds or so).
I know You may not want to "hear" this, but it might make the above task(s) easier if You remove the heads.
And Yes, You should address all of the said plugs, whether or not they appear leaking.
Best,
Timo

[carello]

AD, I am sure everyone would agree, I think you need the advice of someone who has dealt with these exact plugs first hand. We have all seen pipe plugs used in similar fashion, but i believe the most common is a steel pipe plug into alloy threads. If this is alloy to alloy, it means the plug has lesser strength for heating and/or air impacting out. Keep us posted on how you resolve this please. It would be nice if some can supply a hand sketch or better of this exact application.
Craig