As i understand all the above info,
My car, S Nr 12171 probably had two electric fuel pumps.
I presume these were fitted in series?
Does anyone know what the fuel pressure should be?-I have a sneaking suspicion that fuel pressure in my car may be too much-if there is something as too much fuel pressure.
And to come back to my orignal question-what micron/brand of fuel filters do i fit and where?
365 GT 2 + 2 restoration
A. D.,
I'm not quite sure if the mounting and location of fuel pump(s) is similar to 365 GTB/4 (Daytona), but if it is, they're located somewhere under the car on the rear chassis and if there is two of them, they're connected in sequence to provide a volume of fuel when the car is operated with full open throttle. Pump(s) should not create lot of pressure (maybe 3-7 p.s.i.). And if You don't have fuel pressure gauge, simple way to test if You have too much pressure:
Remove air-cleaner cover, turn and leave the ignition on without starting the motor, wait a little and look into the carburetors to see if they're over-flowing. If they are, something's wrong, maybe the fuel return line (if 365 2+2 has one ?) is clogged or ???.
As for the location of filters, I'd like to recommend You put, at least initially, one before the pump(s) and another before the carburetors.
Have You drained/cleaned the fuel tank(s) and lines ? Replaced all fuel with "fresh" and clean stuff ?
Good luck !
I'm not quite sure if the mounting and location of fuel pump(s) is similar to 365 GTB/4 (Daytona), but if it is, they're located somewhere under the car on the rear chassis and if there is two of them, they're connected in sequence to provide a volume of fuel when the car is operated with full open throttle. Pump(s) should not create lot of pressure (maybe 3-7 p.s.i.). And if You don't have fuel pressure gauge, simple way to test if You have too much pressure:
Remove air-cleaner cover, turn and leave the ignition on without starting the motor, wait a little and look into the carburetors to see if they're over-flowing. If they are, something's wrong, maybe the fuel return line (if 365 2+2 has one ?) is clogged or ???.
As for the location of filters, I'd like to recommend You put, at least initially, one before the pump(s) and another before the carburetors.
Have You drained/cleaned the fuel tank(s) and lines ? Replaced all fuel with "fresh" and clean stuff ?
Good luck !
Timo
A.D.
#12009 has the mechanical and electric pump setup. Even after overhauling the mechanical pump it still can't keep up with fuel demand(!) so we run the electric pump all the time. Anyone else have that problem?
Your car should have a return line, so check it carefully and if necessary blow it through with compressed air to make sure it's unblocked as that can cause you some grief as well. I don't know what the tanks are like to try and drain and/or remove, but the cars are really slow to fill up because of the tank design I feel. Be prepared to spend plenty of time on the Garage forecourt!
Hope you all have fun at the party!
Andrew Stevens
#12009 has the mechanical and electric pump setup. Even after overhauling the mechanical pump it still can't keep up with fuel demand(!) so we run the electric pump all the time. Anyone else have that problem?
Your car should have a return line, so check it carefully and if necessary blow it through with compressed air to make sure it's unblocked as that can cause you some grief as well. I don't know what the tanks are like to try and drain and/or remove, but the cars are really slow to fill up because of the tank design I feel. Be prepared to spend plenty of time on the Garage forecourt!
Hope you all have fun at the party!
Andrew Stevens
Kelly La Velle & Andrew Stevens
An Update:
It is Diwali-the Indian festival of lights and also the Indian New Year.Had a three day weekend so took advantage of that to work on the car.
Have fitted the carbs back on the car. It was relatively quite simple.The manifold was checked with a straight steel edge with a light behind it and appeared quite flat.Mike Pierce sent out the packing that goes in between the manifold and the carbs-there were three per carb- 2 thin ones and one thick one,- installed them as one thin, then one thick, then one thin, on top of which the carb was installed.Hope that is the correct sequence.
However ran into one problem:
As per your advise, i did not start the car without checking out the fuel filter first.And lo and behold (Tom you were spot on) the fuel filter was not only so dirty that it was choked, but was also damaged.Had i started the car and pumped dirty fuel back into those beautifully restored carbs, i would have been back to square one.
Therefore decided against starting the car, and am now looking for a replacement fuel filter element.This one has a an Italian sounding name on it beginning with M -forgot the name and the fuel filter is with the garage who are trying to source an element of the correct size. Any leads on sourcing this would be appreciated.(the challenge is the nozzle which has to fit the original assembly)
Am also going to fit a fuel injection quality fuel filter assembly (not original)on fuel line somewhere after the gas tank (space allowing).
Once the fuel filter has been sorted out, will start the car and synchronize the carbs.(Already obtained a synchronometer from Mike Pierce).
Then lets see................
Any comments suggestions or tips?
Best.
A.D.
It is Diwali-the Indian festival of lights and also the Indian New Year.Had a three day weekend so took advantage of that to work on the car.
Have fitted the carbs back on the car. It was relatively quite simple.The manifold was checked with a straight steel edge with a light behind it and appeared quite flat.Mike Pierce sent out the packing that goes in between the manifold and the carbs-there were three per carb- 2 thin ones and one thick one,- installed them as one thin, then one thick, then one thin, on top of which the carb was installed.Hope that is the correct sequence.
However ran into one problem:
As per your advise, i did not start the car without checking out the fuel filter first.And lo and behold (Tom you were spot on) the fuel filter was not only so dirty that it was choked, but was also damaged.Had i started the car and pumped dirty fuel back into those beautifully restored carbs, i would have been back to square one.
Therefore decided against starting the car, and am now looking for a replacement fuel filter element.This one has a an Italian sounding name on it beginning with M -forgot the name and the fuel filter is with the garage who are trying to source an element of the correct size. Any leads on sourcing this would be appreciated.(the challenge is the nozzle which has to fit the original assembly)
Am also going to fit a fuel injection quality fuel filter assembly (not original)on fuel line somewhere after the gas tank (space allowing).
Once the fuel filter has been sorted out, will start the car and synchronize the carbs.(Already obtained a synchronometer from Mike Pierce).
Then lets see................
Any comments suggestions or tips?
Best.
A.D.
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171
Hi A.D.,
I know it can be frustrating, but you're making progress!
The thick phenolic gasket is sandwiched between two thinner gaskets on your carbs, so it sounds like you did it right.
I believe the filter element is a fairly common thing to replace. I know my replacement was a Fram filter, a common brand of filters. I also know all the parts supplers in the States carry this filter.
Another thing to consider is you could run without this filter if you are going to install another filter. It sounds like you'll be replacing fuel filters on a regular basis whether you're running one or two filters. You may consider installing the new filter somewhere easily accessible so filter changes are easier than getting to the Ferrari one. Space it tight, but if you only have electric pumps, you only have to filter one line after the electric pumps. Maybe the line coming up from the firewall, can be routed to a filter assembly mounted on the inner fender and re-routed back to the fuel rail by the carbs.
I believe in the Ferrari set up, the paper cartridge can be removed, and there will still be enough siphoning for it to work.
Good luck!
Tom
I know it can be frustrating, but you're making progress!
The thick phenolic gasket is sandwiched between two thinner gaskets on your carbs, so it sounds like you did it right.
I believe the filter element is a fairly common thing to replace. I know my replacement was a Fram filter, a common brand of filters. I also know all the parts supplers in the States carry this filter.
Another thing to consider is you could run without this filter if you are going to install another filter. It sounds like you'll be replacing fuel filters on a regular basis whether you're running one or two filters. You may consider installing the new filter somewhere easily accessible so filter changes are easier than getting to the Ferrari one. Space it tight, but if you only have electric pumps, you only have to filter one line after the electric pumps. Maybe the line coming up from the firewall, can be routed to a filter assembly mounted on the inner fender and re-routed back to the fuel rail by the carbs.
I believe in the Ferrari set up, the paper cartridge can be removed, and there will still be enough siphoning for it to work.
Good luck!
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
-
Michael Bayer
- Posts: 699
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:22 am
Tom I am wondering if he should rig a cheep plastic inline filter (of the kind all the auto parts houses sell here) just before the carb feed fuel rail rather than a can type filter, that way he could replace it cheeply, weekly if nesessary?
Michael J. Bayer
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193
I didn't know DC fuel was so bad! ;-)Tom I am wondering if he should rig a cheep plastic inline filter (of the kind all the auto parts houses sell here) just before the carb feed fuel rail rather than a can type filter, that way he could replace it cheeply, weekly if nesessary?
Are you having problems with clogged fuel filters? If not, why would you need another one? A.D.'s problem is special, as there is a known problem with dirty fuel, so I can certainly recommend an aux. fuel filter at the expense of asthetics, but for relatively clean fuel in the States, I would hate to see one of those ugly plastic things in your engine compartment. Besides, you're not driving a Chrysler!
We've been finding at Francois' it's not always sediment in the fuel system, but sometimes it's the coatings inside the fuel tank failing!
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Hi Tom,
Am familiar with Fram filters-will check it out on the summit racing website tommorow.
One question-It appears the bakelite packing between the carb and the manifold have been fitted correctly (Thin+Thick+Thin).However, i am left with a fourth piece for each carb-one with an oval cutout in the centre.Any idea what these are for?
Best
A.D.
Am familiar with Fram filters-will check it out on the summit racing website tommorow.
One question-It appears the bakelite packing between the carb and the manifold have been fitted correctly (Thin+Thick+Thin).However, i am left with a fourth piece for each carb-one with an oval cutout in the centre.Any idea what these are for?
Best
A.D.
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171
gaskets
Hi A.D.
The extra gaskets that Mike sent you are just that: extra. When I was installing my carbs I had the same question. Mike said he automatically packs the shipment with all of the variations on gaskets just in case.
Sounds like you got the installation correct. Be aware that there is also a filter within the bendix electric pump body. It is the reusable cartridge type. You can remove it by rotating the body of the pump and it will drop out the bottom. It is a hard red dense fiber material in the form of a cylinder.
Cheers
Mark
The extra gaskets that Mike sent you are just that: extra. When I was installing my carbs I had the same question. Mike said he automatically packs the shipment with all of the variations on gaskets just in case.
Sounds like you got the installation correct. Be aware that there is also a filter within the bendix electric pump body. It is the reusable cartridge type. You can remove it by rotating the body of the pump and it will drop out the bottom. It is a hard red dense fiber material in the form of a cylinder.
Cheers
Mark
69 365 gt 2+2, 12659
98 M3, 02 Porsche 996
98 550 Maranello
98 M3, 02 Porsche 996
98 550 Maranello
By the time the fuel gets to the auxiliary filter we're talking about here, it will have already had a chance to clog up the existing two filters. This might be overly tedious, but it seems like it might be worth it for A.D to pre-filter his gas if it is really that bad. Buy it in jerry cans and filter it before putting it into the car.
1968 365 GT 2+2
s/n 11199
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
s/n 0556(0446)MD
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale
s/n 11199
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
s/n 0556(0446)MD
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale
Hi Tom, Mike, Bryan.
Have decided against starting the car just yet-
Am in the process of recleaning the fuel tank, changing entire fuel line from tank to carb as well as return line to a copper line,
Fitting a fuel injection quality fuel filter assembly in between the tank and the fuel pumps.
Also looking for a torque wrench with a flexible stem-am going to retighten the flange bolts on each carb to ensure that they are all evenly tightened to 12psi which is what mike said they should be at.
I have no Gaskets to seal the carb to the air cleaner.
Maybe the extra ones-with the rectangle cut out in the middle- are meant to go on top?It sounds logical. Please confirm.
Best
A.D.
Have decided against starting the car just yet-
Am in the process of recleaning the fuel tank, changing entire fuel line from tank to carb as well as return line to a copper line,
Fitting a fuel injection quality fuel filter assembly in between the tank and the fuel pumps.
Also looking for a torque wrench with a flexible stem-am going to retighten the flange bolts on each carb to ensure that they are all evenly tightened to 12psi which is what mike said they should be at.
I have no Gaskets to seal the carb to the air cleaner.
Maybe the extra ones-with the rectangle cut out in the middle- are meant to go on top?It sounds logical. Please confirm.
Best
A.D.
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171