365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

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BobA
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by BobA » Fri May 04, 2018 12:42 pm

Since three wires are not firing, it would seem to indicate the possibility that one set of points on the right hand bank is not working. Each set is responsible for three cylinders. Hope you resolve this soon. Bob A.

grahamdelooze
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by grahamdelooze » Tue May 08, 2018 8:30 am

I would agree, each set of points fires 3 cylinders. I had no end of trouble just stoning the points in place and it wasn't rectified until I took them out and filed them flat or slightly domed with no sign of any pitting so that they could be gapped correctly.

cylinders 1,2,3 are points set 1 on distributor 1.
cylinders 4,5,6 are points set 2 on distributor 1.
cylinders 7,8,9 are points set 1 on distributor 2.
cylinders 10,11,12 are points set 2 on distributor 2.

You have to go back to basics.

Make sure your ignition 12v side is good and clean everywhere. Running rough after a while can be a bad condensor.
Points should be in good order and gapped properly to 0.014"

Points sets should be phased properly 180Deg apart. This can be done easilly by using a continuity tester between positive stud on the side of the distributor and ground. Positive supply wire should be disconected and battery disconected for this test. Push the car forward in gear slowly and check that your points open, witnesed by your tester at the correct coresponding flywheel timing marks.

AF 10 which is 10 deg advanced of PM 1,6 for points set 1 then same mark for points set 2, one engine revolution later where the rotor arm will have moved clockwise 180 deg. You will notice that each set of points is slightly adjustable for achieving the 180 deg phasing by way of slots and clamping screws at each end. If timing is miles off you will have to swing the distributor.

Now the same with the other distributor using a different AF10 mark which is 10 deg advanced of PM 7,12 mark
There are many marks which can be difficult to read on the flywheel. Do not get it wrong.

Now run the engine at less than 1000 rpm and check with a strobe that you are on AF 10, Cyl 1 will check one set of points, cyl 6 will check the other set. You may need to swing the distributor to fine tune but its more important that at 5000rpm its not more advanced than the AM 42 mark.

Do the same with the other distributor using cylinders 7 and 12.
Check its firing on all cylinders with damp cloth on the exhaust. IF not check HV side Rotor arm, cap, wires, plugs and coils.

Now you can check fuel mixture.

Graham
330 GT 6159

A.D.
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by A.D. » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:13 am

So near yet so far away...

Thank you for the advise - it has been invaluable!

As described earlier there was no current flowing through three wires of the wires of the right hand bank.

Thanks to all the detailed instructions you gave, the fault was quickly identified as a set of defective points.

New points were called out from Rutlands
and Installed. The timing was rechecked and adjusted as per the step by step instructions you gave above. All marks at both rpms are now lining up perfectly.

Pleased to inform you that the sudden miss
while idling has now vanished.

However the car is still running very fuel rich.
You cannot stand behind the car - your eyes and nose start burning.

Also, if one accelerates a bit suddenly (say in first gear after the traffic light turns green), she misfires. Since the hood is not yet fitted back, we can actually see the excess fuel - as in a vapor being pushed out of the top of the carb.

The condenser, rotor, cap plugs and wires are new.

Turning the air screw makes no difference to the fuel rich smell. In fact when the air screw is turned fully closed i would have expected the engine to go off, but instead the idling rpm increases slightly.

Took out the “old carbs” that mike pierce had returned to me as they could not be rebuilt.

Checked the jets from these “old carbs”. They read 200. Then checked the jets installed in the “new carbs” which are presently installed on the car.
They too read 200.

Is the jet size correct? Are smaller jets available? Foes this model use smaller jets normally?

What do i do?

Please help!

Warmly,



A.D.
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
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tyang
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by tyang » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:36 pm

Hi AD,

Understand, the main jets don't affect how rich it idles as much as the idle jets. I will check tomorrow what the jet sizes should be for a 365GT 2+2. I will try to photograph which ones I'm talking about so there is no misunderstanding.

How many turns out on the idle mixture screws are you running?

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

BobA
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by BobA » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:34 pm

It would seem that, if the idle mixture screws do not have any effect, the fuel is coming from somewhere else, like a float valve not sealing. Engines do not run without fuel.

A.D.
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by A.D. » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Checked the idle jets

They have 60 stamped on them or 09
Depending on how you view it.

Also checked the old unusable carbs
They too had 60 or 09 jets

Took the car up and down the yard a few
times after putting in 15 litres of gasoline.

The fuel got over - so ahe is guzzling.

What do i do guys?

Please help!
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
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tyang
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by tyang » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 pm

365jets.jpg
365jets.jpg (387.51 KiB) Viewed 1346 times
This is from a 365GT 2+2 manual
There was a supplement that says US spec cars used 58s, but the idle jets look correct at 60.

How are you setting the float levels?

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

grahamdelooze
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by grahamdelooze » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:38 am

I would be checking float needle valves and float heights. Is fuel supplied from the mechanical fuel pump or an electric one.
330 GT 6159

A.D.
Posts: 170
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by A.D. » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:01 pm

I've not touched the original float level settings as we had pulled the tops off and found the fuel level satisfactory . Fuel is not overflowing into the intake manifold as can be seen from top of the carbs .
Fuel is initially supplied with electric fuel pump . Once the car starts , I switch off the electric pump and then the car works on mechanical pump
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
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tyang
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by tyang » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:31 pm

Hi AD,

I've re-read your post, and I question how do you know it's running rich? It's hard to tell just from standing behind the, despite your burning eyes! What do the plugs look like? Are they sooty black, or are they brown? The pop you're describing at the carbs may actually be a lean pop back at the carburetor. My concern is nothing changes when you screw the idle air adjustment screws in and there is no change. Is this still happening?

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

A.D.
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by A.D. » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:59 pm

Hi Tom

There is no doubt that the car is running rich

Forget the pop from the carb

If you stand behind the car your eyes feel they
are going to burn right out of your sockets!

My friend who is working on the car and I spoke
to Mike Pierce last night. He very quickly
identified what we are doing wrong.

Going to address that now. Lets hope it works.
Fingers crossed.

Will post an update tonight alongwith what Mike said
and what we did.

Best
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
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A.D.
Posts: 170
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Location: INDIA

Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by A.D. » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:59 pm

An update

We spoke to Mike Pierce who pointed out
what we were doing wrong.

We were adjusting the idle using the screw
On the lever that connects all three carbs.

This was keeping the throttle plates open
resulting in fuel pouring in.

He asked us to keep this screw closed till
it was only just touching the lever
thereby ensuring that the throttle plates
remain closed.

And to adjust the idle using the idle mixture
screw at the bottom (which we had not touched
up until now.)

We did this and the miss disappeared completely

The fuel rich smell has also reduced considerably
although it is still there, but much less than earlier.

We couldn’t complete the job as in the meantime
a small fuel leak developed.

Getting that fixed after which we will go back
to setting the idle mixture.

Best
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171

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tyang
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by tyang » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:04 am

Hi AD,

That deserves a "dope slap!" (welcome to the club. I've received plenty myself!)

Thanks for telling us about the mistake. You had us all over the world struggling at what could possibly be wrong.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

afwrench
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by afwrench » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:33 pm

Hi A D , after all that rich running it might be a good idea to pull the plugs for a quick cleaning.Good luck,Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB

A.D.
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Re: 365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

Post by A.D. » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:50 am

Thank you.

Cleaned the plugs adjusted the idle mixture.

Very little fuel rich smell now.

However in the meantime the fuel gauge and temp
Gauge stopped working.

Since the monsoon has arrived in full force
It’s raining very heavily- while we wait
Getting the gauges fixed.

Then as soon as we get a break from the rain
We will take her out.

Vroom Vroom

Watch this soace!
A.D.
GT 365 2 + 2
S NR 12171

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