Boy, with the greatly increased prices in the last few months, these cars are coming out of the woodwork (or at least hidden garages).
There are three 330 GT cars scheduled for the RM/Sotheby's auction in Maranello on 5/20 (http://www.rmauctions.com/Default.cfm?SaleCode=FF07). These are 7375, 8601 and 8633.
In addition, there are three on eBay right now:
6937: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 720&rd=1,1
8101: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 954&rd=1,1
6997: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 930&rd=1,1
Plus there were two for sale at the Techno Classica in Germany late last month: 6875 and 6969.
I haven't seen this many for sale at one time since the late 80s.
330 GT prices
330 GT prices
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
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Michael Bayer
- Posts: 699
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:22 am
Nah...this is nothing like the late 80's. The previous owner of my car told me that in '89 he got an offer of $90K the way it sat...essentially the same as when I bought it in late '02...badly neglected but sound. I'd bet 100 bucks against me getting near that now, even with all the work I've done.Michael Bayer wrote:Kerry It is looking more and more like the late 80s............M
In the immediate post-Enzo runup days, 2-headlight 330's were trading as high as $250K, and 4HL models not too far behind.
Probably a reasonable ask for my car would be $82.5K, with an anticipated sale price of $73-$75K. Still not bad, and definitely enough to break even on 100% of my expenses save gas, with a couple thou on the top.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
I don't think so. From what I have been told, that car (6937) has been stored for years. I think that there will be a lot of deferred maintenance issues for the new owner. If you add those potential costs to the price, you will be pushing 100K for that car. So a car with maintenance being current and no big issues should bring considerably more.jsa330 wrote:$76, 100.00 took the red Interim 330.
Knock off two or three thousand for an early Series I, and looks like my guess regarding an anticipated sales price my 330 is right on.
The other two auctions on eBay end in a few days. It will be interesting seeing where they end up.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
Kerry, that's encouraging.
My car is mucho el primo mechanically, with issues limited to non-functional trunk light, sunroof needing repair, radiator that it wouldn't hurt to rebuild, that kind of thing. Cosmetically, very evenly-patinaed car, gets compliments on overall appearance all the time.
I like the watch-the-appreciation game, but it's not an obsession...if I had a compelling reason to sell and broke even plus a few thousand for my efforts, that would be fine.
My car is mucho el primo mechanically, with issues limited to non-functional trunk light, sunroof needing repair, radiator that it wouldn't hurt to rebuild, that kind of thing. Cosmetically, very evenly-patinaed car, gets compliments on overall appearance all the time.
I like the watch-the-appreciation game, but it's not an obsession...if I had a compelling reason to sell and broke even plus a few thousand for my efforts, that would be fine.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
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Keith Milne
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 1:34 pm
- Location: Ben Lomond, CA
Why its not like the late 80s:
I had this very conversation with a very well known dealer/collector just last week. We were discussing the quick rise in values on certain cars (not the Barrett Jackson stuff) and how the market is different than 89. The Ferrari market, in particular, was driven mostly by speculation - but this was the case for a lot of cars. Ferrari just got the press. He went on to say that there is a lot more wealth in the world today, but the number of collectible cars in finite. "Back in 1989 I had two billionare clients - Bill Gates and Paul Allen. Today I have 50 billionaire clients and another 50 who are worth over $500 million. There have been times when I pick up a car in Los Angeles and it has appreciated $10K before I get it back to the shop. (Bay Area)". I suspect that the values of good cars will continue to rise, and that others will get pulled along with them. For instance, early Porsche 911s have gotten very expensive in the last few years. It has priced a lot of buyers out of the market, so they buy 912s instead. Now 912s are appreciating quickly. And, everytime a Cobra hits a new record, my AC Bristol gets dragged along with it. Interesting market.
Keith
I had this very conversation with a very well known dealer/collector just last week. We were discussing the quick rise in values on certain cars (not the Barrett Jackson stuff) and how the market is different than 89. The Ferrari market, in particular, was driven mostly by speculation - but this was the case for a lot of cars. Ferrari just got the press. He went on to say that there is a lot more wealth in the world today, but the number of collectible cars in finite. "Back in 1989 I had two billionare clients - Bill Gates and Paul Allen. Today I have 50 billionaire clients and another 50 who are worth over $500 million. There have been times when I pick up a car in Los Angeles and it has appreciated $10K before I get it back to the shop. (Bay Area)". I suspect that the values of good cars will continue to rise, and that others will get pulled along with them. For instance, early Porsche 911s have gotten very expensive in the last few years. It has priced a lot of buyers out of the market, so they buy 912s instead. Now 912s are appreciating quickly. And, everytime a Cobra hits a new record, my AC Bristol gets dragged along with it. Interesting market.
Keith
The Ferrari market is nothing like the late 80's.
Back then cars were trading between dealers and speculators and they were not getting titled or registered. They went from one guy to another never to be driven or enjoyed.
I bought/brokered/sold 22 cars in 2006, Porsches, OSCA, Maserati, lots of Ferraris, Jaguars and they all went to end users who under no circumstances will sell them. These guys want to drive them, maintain them and are not scared of being in a little too "deep" financially as they plan on keeping the car for years.
I just sold a 246 GT to a guy who is sick with cancer because he knows that his wife will continue to enjoy the car after he is gone!
Early 911 prices are not outrageous, I sold two last year and another one the other day, tell me, is $28,000 for a 1971 911 that can outperform a 246 Dino and costs peanuts to keep up crazy?
As a guy mentioned above, here is what is keeping the market healthy, there are fewer and fewer good cars and more and more collectors. Back to the 911 Porsche reference, I bet that there are fewer unmolested (no wings, correct engine) early 911's that are not rusty beyond repair than there are Ferrari 308's. We all know that there few very good SOHC Ferrari 2+2's and when is the last time someone heard of a once common 250 GT PF coupe?
Back then cars were trading between dealers and speculators and they were not getting titled or registered. They went from one guy to another never to be driven or enjoyed.
I bought/brokered/sold 22 cars in 2006, Porsches, OSCA, Maserati, lots of Ferraris, Jaguars and they all went to end users who under no circumstances will sell them. These guys want to drive them, maintain them and are not scared of being in a little too "deep" financially as they plan on keeping the car for years.
I just sold a 246 GT to a guy who is sick with cancer because he knows that his wife will continue to enjoy the car after he is gone!
Early 911 prices are not outrageous, I sold two last year and another one the other day, tell me, is $28,000 for a 1971 911 that can outperform a 246 Dino and costs peanuts to keep up crazy?
As a guy mentioned above, here is what is keeping the market healthy, there are fewer and fewer good cars and more and more collectors. Back to the 911 Porsche reference, I bet that there are fewer unmolested (no wings, correct engine) early 911's that are not rusty beyond repair than there are Ferrari 308's. We all know that there few very good SOHC Ferrari 2+2's and when is the last time someone heard of a once common 250 GT PF coupe?
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm
No way my wife could even get the 330 out of the garage...she'll sell it if I die first, but has pronouced that it stays put until that happens.Rudy van Daalen Wetters wrote:Knowing the wife will be driving the 246 GT while I'm dying of cancer? Not on my watch.
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
From some of the previous posts, seems the prevailing opinion is that the current vintage sports/exotic market is value-driven rather than speculative, with many cars going to end-users with plans to keep longterm rather than to traders who flip them quick as in the 15-20 yrs. ago market.
It makes sense...excepting a few highly-desirable 60's production Ferrari models, I've see a steady and gradual appreciation curve over the last five years.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
thoughts on current market
I truly enjoy this type of discussion, where we can all hypothesize what drives the market and where the market is going. Only on hindsight will we really know what is driving the current market. Being an end user, with no intention of selling my GTE, it is all academic for me in terms of selling my car, but must be frustrating for anyone looking for a car.
If the gentlemen above are correct (and Stephanm should have a better feel for the market than I do since he is actively involved), and the market is currently being driven by limited supply and collectors instead of speculators, then what is to prevent the speculators from joining the party? Wouldn’t this be the best time for a speculator to jump in? If one believes the market will continue to rise based on supply and demand criteria, this is the perfect time to “speculate”. Tulips anyone (or muscle cars)? Just my 2 cents.
Robert
If the gentlemen above are correct (and Stephanm should have a better feel for the market than I do since he is actively involved), and the market is currently being driven by limited supply and collectors instead of speculators, then what is to prevent the speculators from joining the party? Wouldn’t this be the best time for a speculator to jump in? If one believes the market will continue to rise based on supply and demand criteria, this is the perfect time to “speculate”. Tulips anyone (or muscle cars)? Just my 2 cents.
Robert
Robert,
IMO, the market has reached speculative levels for select 60's production Ferraris...275GTBs and Lussos being the most obvious examples.
In the five-plus years since I "entered the market", i.e., started looking for a 330 2+2, GTBs and Lussos have tripled and quadrupled, while 2+2s have risen much more slowly, with 2X appreciation for 330 2+2s, 330 Americas, and 365 2+2s, 2.25X for 250GTEs.
As you said, it's anyone's guess, and mine is that the market has topped out for awhile on all 60's production Ferraris. With some available cars again out there, the next yr is probably a good time to buy a 2+2...I think prices are already in a "correction".
Academic for me as well, as I have no plans to sell my car.
IMO, the market has reached speculative levels for select 60's production Ferraris...275GTBs and Lussos being the most obvious examples.
In the five-plus years since I "entered the market", i.e., started looking for a 330 2+2, GTBs and Lussos have tripled and quadrupled, while 2+2s have risen much more slowly, with 2X appreciation for 330 2+2s, 330 Americas, and 365 2+2s, 2.25X for 250GTEs.
As you said, it's anyone's guess, and mine is that the market has topped out for awhile on all 60's production Ferraris. With some available cars again out there, the next yr is probably a good time to buy a 2+2...I think prices are already in a "correction".
Academic for me as well, as I have no plans to sell my car.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
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Keith Milne
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 1:34 pm
- Location: Ben Lomond, CA
In reply to Stephanm:
What I really meant was, that early 911s have gotten expensive - in relative terms. In general, they have about doubled in the last five years, with S's commanding considerably more. I've owned several 911s (as well as various other 9 series and 356s). They are incredibly fun to drive and have always been a huge bang for the buck.
What I really meant was, that early 911s have gotten expensive - in relative terms. In general, they have about doubled in the last five years, with S's commanding considerably more. I've owned several 911s (as well as various other 9 series and 356s). They are incredibly fun to drive and have always been a huge bang for the buck.
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Jimmy Chen Shiba
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:09 pm
- Location: Yokohama & Tokyo, Japan
- Contact:
Porsches durability
Genuine Porsche parts are expensive, but when fixed and maintained properly, these cars are truly reliable and a lot of fun to drive, ...all because the parts are made of top quality materials. JimmyKeith Milne wrote:In reply to Stephanm:
What I really meant was, that early 911s have gotten expensive - in relative terms. In general, they have about doubled in the last five years, with S's commanding considerably more. I've owned several 911s (as well as various other 9 series and 356s). They are incredibly fun to drive and have always been a huge bang for the buck.
1969 Dino 246 GT Tipo L #0508; 1973 365 GT4 BB #17585; 1970 365 GTB4 Daytona #13745; 1966 275 GTB 3carb all alloy longnose #08191; and few others
Interesting ebay results:
s/n 6937 sold for about what I guessed.
s/n 8101 didn't sell...and this was an apparently-nice Series II car...surprised at the lack of movement.
s/n 6997 is has 6.5 hours to go, and bids are not yet approaching what reasonable reserve would be...around $75-$80K, with being an Interim car a big positive factor.
BTW, 6997 is a near exterior "dead-ringer" for my 330...my interior is light tan... Pelle Beige, with black painted dash.
s/n 6937 sold for about what I guessed.
s/n 8101 didn't sell...and this was an apparently-nice Series II car...surprised at the lack of movement.
s/n 6997 is has 6.5 hours to go, and bids are not yet approaching what reasonable reserve would be...around $75-$80K, with being an Interim car a big positive factor.
BTW, 6997 is a near exterior "dead-ringer" for my 330...my interior is light tan... Pelle Beige, with black painted dash.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409