330GT Track Report:
I took the 330 to the Beaver Run Track for an event sponsored by the local Ferrari Club. There were only 2 Ferraris there - mine and a 360 spider, driven by an experienced track driver, so we represented quite a span of Ferrari years. A bunch of Corvettes in vatious tune and driver skill, as well as Porches, BMW's,and other assorted cars, including a Cheeta and a Ford GT also tracked.
I went with a friend who was a former SCCA racer, After a few turns around the track, I talked him into a demo. The results were interesting.
First, we were far from the slowest car on the track, the cars that passed us (passing was only allowed on the fast somewhat straight sections) were the genuine "hot shoes", like the Ford GT, and a couple of the hot Corvettes and the like. But we passed a couple other Corvettes as pay-back..
Second, He was tending to shift too soon - a twelve sounds much faster than the actual revs,and in all of his experience he had never tracked a 12 cylinder.
But most interesting was the speed: the 360 driver told me "you were just about keeping up with me". The 360 was quicker in the turns, so if he was in front his exit speed was greater and he could pull away. But If he was behind us, he did not have enough acceleration/speed differential to pass. And this pattern was the case all day, even when I was driving. Except for the very few fastest cars, the 330s accelleration in 2nd and 3rd coming out of a turn was too much to be passed (except that I would slow down to let them by).
I was pleased, and most of the others were surprised and pleased, that a 40 year old street machine gave away so little to the modern iron. But it is, as someone said, "a thinly disguised endurance racer"
All you 330 owners. if you get a chance to track your car - do it!
Cheers
Warren
Tracking a 330GT
Tracking a 330GT
330 GT Series II sn 10069
Hi Warren,
Thanks for the report! I want to familiarize myself with my car before I track it, especially since I won't be able to afford any off track excursions! The 330s definitely have some good pulling power in second and third gears. Thanks for making us proud.
Tom
Thanks for the report! I want to familiarize myself with my car before I track it, especially since I won't be able to afford any off track excursions! The 330s definitely have some good pulling power in second and third gears. Thanks for making us proud.
Isn't it ironic that only two Ferraris showed up?
I took the 330 to the Beaver Run Track for an event sponsored by the local Ferrari Club
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Was there really a Cheetah there? I had that slot car when I was a kid and it was always one of my favorite cars. I found an old Automobile Quarterly about them recently and they seemed like misrable cars to drive as the engine was in your lap and incredibly hot and the short wheelbase made for very twitchy handling. None the less in the straightaways they were as fast as a cheetah!
I recently drove the 1972 911 at Watkins Glenn and it was very interesting for me to compare to my limited track time with the 330. In reality I didn't enjoy tracking the 330, I am nothing special as a driver and the short track at Lime Rock that I drove on has some metal fencing after the back straight that you are supposed to slide up to in the turn there. I kept imaging what that slides outcome would be if I went a little too far. Also I was on XWX's at the time and have heard that they loose grip when they get hot. I know the instructors when they drove the car felt it was a handful at times.
The funny thing is the instructor at Watkins Glen also thought the old 911 was a handful (he owned a tracked out 944 turbo). Me on the other hand loved driving the downhill turns (with the instructor yelling the whole time "don't brake, don't brake" - duh). Because I knew the 330 would not have had fun going downhill steeply and turning. However coming back out of the turn in a steep up hill I really missed the Ferrari's power.
Yale
I recently drove the 1972 911 at Watkins Glenn and it was very interesting for me to compare to my limited track time with the 330. In reality I didn't enjoy tracking the 330, I am nothing special as a driver and the short track at Lime Rock that I drove on has some metal fencing after the back straight that you are supposed to slide up to in the turn there. I kept imaging what that slides outcome would be if I went a little too far. Also I was on XWX's at the time and have heard that they loose grip when they get hot. I know the instructors when they drove the car felt it was a handful at times.
The funny thing is the instructor at Watkins Glen also thought the old 911 was a handful (he owned a tracked out 944 turbo). Me on the other hand loved driving the downhill turns (with the instructor yelling the whole time "don't brake, don't brake" - duh). Because I knew the 330 would not have had fun going downhill steeply and turning. However coming back out of the turn in a steep up hill I really missed the Ferrari's power.
Yale
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
Hi Yale:
Funny you should mention the twitchy handling of the Cheetah - it was one of 2 spins during the day - with an instructor driving. The other was one of the racing series Mazdas who shared some track time with us. No damage in either case.
The Cheetah was one of the cars I was "blocking" coming onto the straight - I had to let up rather than accelerate full out. It surprised me that I could buzz right through the 7K redline before I had to shift up to 3rd. I think I touched 7500 once.
The Beaver Run track is very safe, it would be hard to get into the barriers as they have a lot grassy run-off real estate if you don't quite make the turn. Your description of Lime Rock sounds like Summit Point, where there is a fast sweeper entering into the start/finish straight, so you have to drift right up to the barrier to get any exit speed onto the straight.
My driving is just so-so. Yesterday I never got the turns right - I either braked too soon or too late, so hitting the apex at the right speed was a sometime event, and once you miss the first in a series of turns you are not set up for any of the subsequent turns. I was very sloppy! Fortunately the 330 is very forgiving and certainly way better than I am.
Cheers
Warren
Funny you should mention the twitchy handling of the Cheetah - it was one of 2 spins during the day - with an instructor driving. The other was one of the racing series Mazdas who shared some track time with us. No damage in either case.
The Cheetah was one of the cars I was "blocking" coming onto the straight - I had to let up rather than accelerate full out. It surprised me that I could buzz right through the 7K redline before I had to shift up to 3rd. I think I touched 7500 once.
The Beaver Run track is very safe, it would be hard to get into the barriers as they have a lot grassy run-off real estate if you don't quite make the turn. Your description of Lime Rock sounds like Summit Point, where there is a fast sweeper entering into the start/finish straight, so you have to drift right up to the barrier to get any exit speed onto the straight.
My driving is just so-so. Yesterday I never got the turns right - I either braked too soon or too late, so hitting the apex at the right speed was a sometime event, and once you miss the first in a series of turns you are not set up for any of the subsequent turns. I was very sloppy! Fortunately the 330 is very forgiving and certainly way better than I am.
Cheers
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069
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Tom Wilson
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:01 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Contact:
Does anybody know if any of the driving schools (ie: Bondurant, Skip Barber etc) will let you bring your own car? I've always thought that it would be good to have a professional teach me the limits of the car, once it gets running. Of course, that would mean finding a professional that knows how to drive a 60's V-12.
Both those schools have manufacture sponsorship agreements and use the sponsors cars. I drove at Skippy school, as some call it, and then at a http://www.scda1.com/ event and some of the instructors were exactly the same people. One of my friends races Volvos and one of his friends was one of the SCDA instructors who took me out in his gutted Volvo 244. Blecch, really didn't like getting thrown around as he stayed 5 inches off the tail of a Volkswagen Rabbit that was up on three wheels for the whole track length. I got out of the car to do the classroom part and when that was over noticed that the Rabbit in a ball on the side of the road. It had broken a shock strut tower and rolled end over end. The driver was fine, the car totaled.
As for instructors knowing about driving an old Ferrari, hell there was nobody at the Porsche club event at Watkins Glenn who had driven a pre "73 911! The instructor fellow in my car was pretty freaked out about what was for the era a great handleing car.
There are also some other places that allow you to use your car like:
http://www.emraracing.org/Emraeven.htm
http://www.pdadrivingschool.com/
http://www.nasaproracing.com/aboutnasa/
Skip Barber was pretty expensive and maybe has more consistent, higher quality instruction then the above. But the places above are about 1/4 the cost per day of Barber and you do get some kind of feel (about how much you suck if your like me). And you can learn what not to do. Tom has video of me after I managed to spin out the Ferrari and get grass all inside the car and coming perpendicular out of the wheels! Made me very very aware of being in turns, (like highway on ramps - I like to call them the Ferrari drivers freind), going much faster then other cars ahead of me and having to brake so I don't run into them. On the track the rear end came out in slow motion with the instructor going, "We're going to spin! we're going to spin!!!"
Yale
As for instructors knowing about driving an old Ferrari, hell there was nobody at the Porsche club event at Watkins Glenn who had driven a pre "73 911! The instructor fellow in my car was pretty freaked out about what was for the era a great handleing car.
There are also some other places that allow you to use your car like:
http://www.emraracing.org/Emraeven.htm
http://www.pdadrivingschool.com/
http://www.nasaproracing.com/aboutnasa/
Skip Barber was pretty expensive and maybe has more consistent, higher quality instruction then the above. But the places above are about 1/4 the cost per day of Barber and you do get some kind of feel (about how much you suck if your like me). And you can learn what not to do. Tom has video of me after I managed to spin out the Ferrari and get grass all inside the car and coming perpendicular out of the wheels! Made me very very aware of being in turns, (like highway on ramps - I like to call them the Ferrari drivers freind), going much faster then other cars ahead of me and having to brake so I don't run into them. On the track the rear end came out in slow motion with the instructor going, "We're going to spin! we're going to spin!!!"
Yale
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
Performance Driving schools
I used "Tracktime" for both myself and my Daughter (when she turned 18) but that is only in the east, I think, and I am not sure they have the same offering anymore.
I wonder if Jim Russell racing might be what you are looking for. They describe it as follows
"Your sports car, our track"
"Think of how much you’ve invested in your sports car. Why not invest a small amount to learn how to get the most out of it? The High Performance Course lets you see what your car can do on an actual racetrack. No stoplights. No speed limits. Just an unbelievable opportunity for those who love driving and want to become expert drivers in their own high performance cars."
Check them out:http://www.jimrussellusa.com/drivingcou ... rmance.php
The only downside is that it is a qne day course. When I did Tracktime I was embarrasingly slow the first day, by the end of the second day my daughters instructor told her "Your dad is really fast" Obviously I am a slow learner. If you are a fast learner, one day might be all you need.
And for some amusement check this link which I found while googling.
http://www.coneslayer.org/lpds/
Cheers
Warren
I used "Tracktime" for both myself and my Daughter (when she turned 18) but that is only in the east, I think, and I am not sure they have the same offering anymore.
I wonder if Jim Russell racing might be what you are looking for. They describe it as follows
"Your sports car, our track"
"Think of how much you’ve invested in your sports car. Why not invest a small amount to learn how to get the most out of it? The High Performance Course lets you see what your car can do on an actual racetrack. No stoplights. No speed limits. Just an unbelievable opportunity for those who love driving and want to become expert drivers in their own high performance cars."
Check them out:http://www.jimrussellusa.com/drivingcou ... rmance.php
The only downside is that it is a qne day course. When I did Tracktime I was embarrasingly slow the first day, by the end of the second day my daughters instructor told her "Your dad is really fast" Obviously I am a slow learner. If you are a fast learner, one day might be all you need.
And for some amusement check this link which I found while googling.
http://www.coneslayer.org/lpds/
Cheers
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069
Hi Matt - missed you saturday at the PVGP. There were 22 Ferrari's there by my count. But no, I knew about it because a friend is one of the instructors at Beaver Run Raceway when they have such events. If you want I will pass along any info on similar events.Matt F wrote:Hi, Warren. That sounds great.
Was that in conjunction with the PVGP? (I enjoyed meeting you there last year.) For some reason, I never heard of the event, otherwise I would have had my 330 there!
--Matt
Cheers
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069