Inferior Parts

[Stephanm]

I was thinking of writing this post in the "is the customer always right" post but thought it has the weight to stand on its own. This is a way for the Ferrari owner to sympathize with the shop owner because of a lack of high quality replacement parts.

As a shop owner we are constantly beat down by inferior replacement parts which can cost the customer money but more often cost the shop owner money and reputation. I am often embarrassed to charge my customer the necessary labor to remove and replace a water pump seal 3-4 times because the seals are not made to the same spec as the originals. Guess how enjoyable it is to have coolant dripping down your arm while scraping gasket material for the 4th time.
I recently re-built a high mileage 330 engine and bought new roller followers from a suppler with the bushings instead of the needle bearings. I usually buy the nearly $2000/set ones but thought that this engine had the bronze bushing ones that lasted 80K so why not buy the $1200 set constructed the same way?
After the car went 1500 miles I did a valve adjustment and head torque only to find chewed up rollers that damaged the camshafts! I have spent countless waisted hours on the phone trying to get the suppler to honor his products.
I assembled a 275/4 engine to have one cylinder smoke on the test stand. I spent 15 hrs replacing the intake valve stem seal to find that it still smoked. I spent the 60 hrs to break down the engine to replace the faulty oil control rings. Problem solved but guess what the billionare customer told me? "I am not paying for that, you should have billed the piston ring manufacturer". He is right but who has the time to do this when the customer is chewing you a new one to get the car together?
These cars are the worst of the worst as far as servicing so everyone should understand that they are ridiculous and a ton of fun but do not expect any miracles from even the best of shops.
These types of issues rear there head every day at a classic car shop.

[Art S.]

Steve,

Francois told me several very similar stories when I went to pick up the car. Maybe Tom will chime in and share the tails of woe.

Regards,

Art S.

[tyang]

Yeah, The 365GTC/4 with the bent rod has an issue with the head gasket. The second one is still leaking! Several hours have been wasted pulling the head to change the gasket. The clearance specs have been checked, so it's definitely the gasket. Stay tuned!

Tom

[Art S.]

Tom Y.,

Apparently the same problem on a Daytona engine - the metal portion of the gaskets are too hard and will not compress under correct torque.

Francois also told me about a defective set of cams he dealt with years ago - they were made of a too soft material and the lobes were gone in 1500 miles!

I wonder if this situation will improve with Ferrari getting into the classic parts game.

Regards,

Art S.

[John Vardanian]

Hi Stephan,

Some think I am excessive with my valve adjustment frequency. But the truth is it's not that the valves need adjusting so frequently, rather it's those darn rollers that need to be watched. I have found a few so far where the bronze bush was either chewed or had tried to slip out of its bore.

Replacements I have gotten were from T Rutlands for about $50. Are these the good ones or the bad?

john

[Stephanm]

I am not interested in naming names because I know that the different suppliers are struggling to provide good products and I cannot continue business without them.

What is irritating is when you buy 12 piston/ring/clip/pin sets that are supposed to be matched and get a few defective oil rings or ring end gaps that are either way too large or they overlap in the bore!

The list continues with the head gasket failures, sub-contractors problematic work and trying to salvage the terrible workmanship from other shops.
I had a 250 engine in the shop that was a 62 degree V-12 because both deck surfaces were machined at different angles!
I has a 275 engine that barely turned over because someone used .005 shim stock under the rod bearing shell, not under both the rod and cap shell (bad enough) but under only the rod shell!

[tyang]

Tom Y.,

Apparently the same problem on a Daytona engine - the metal portion of the gaskets are too hard and will not compress under correct torque.

Francois also told me about a defective set of cams he dealt with years ago - they were made of a too soft material and the lobes were gone in 1500 miles!

I wonder if this situation will improve with Ferrari getting into the classic parts game.

Regards,

Art S.

I guess I'll be getting some more "seat time" pulling heads and installing new head gaskets! The good news is this motor is already out of the car, so I get to do this on an engine stand!

I heard those cams were made in England...Hello! English Metalergy?

Perhpas if Ferrari has a failure like this, they will stand behind their products!

Tom

[tyang]

I am not interested in naming names because I know that the different suppliers are struggling to provide good products and I cannot continue business without them.

What is irritating is when you buy 12 piston/ring/clip/pin sets that are supposed to be matched and get a few defective oil rings or ring end gaps that are either way too large or they overlap in the bore!

My dilema has been dealing with the threat of lawsuits if I name names of the bad suppliers, but nothing is wrong with naming the good products, and the good suppliers. Once I find the head gaskets that work, I will be sharing this information. Hopefully, you'll be able to identify these gaskets, and steer away from the bad ones.

Tom

[whturner]

Just a reminder - there were a number of water pump issues (recall past threads) of the same type. Mine was out 4 times before a industrial part was used with the appropriate mods to make it fit. so far - so good.

Cheers
Warren

[Michael Bayer]

Does this call for a specific section on Tom's site where we can post by original parts book groupings and numbers those of parts that we have used that have really worked by source and manufacturer?

[Yale]

Does this call for a specific section on Tom's site where we can post by original parts book groupings and numbers those of parts that we have used that have really worked by source and manufacturer?

Yes Tom, does it? ;}}}

Yale

[Dan Sands]

I am on the second set of head gaskets and they still leak. The engine is still on the stand thankfully. I got a credit for the first set but I'm not sure what to expect with the second set from a different supplier. If anyone knows of a good gasket please let me know.
Thanks, Dan

[tyang]

Does this call for a specific section on Tom's site where we can post by original parts book groupings and numbers those of parts that we have used that have really worked by source and manufacturer?

Certainly a consideration. It might be a good topic of discussion at the TY party. Two main items that seem to need a reliable source are water pump seals, and head gaskets. I'll need to contace shops willing to share their experiences becasue if there is a trend, you'll see it in the shops.

On the water pumps, Bill Pollard has shown me seals that look identical except for the diameter of the spring that pushes against the seal. You won't notice the wimpy spring unless you put it next to the stronger spring. If I can get a measurement of the stronger spring, I'll post it.

Tom

[whturner]

Hi Guys:

In my case, the first replacement leaked - so the weak spring was replaced by a stronger spring - next, the rubber boot split.
Beware, it may not just be the spring!

Cheers
Warren

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

Three times to get the water pump to stop leaking and finally got an original spring which made it right. It is obvious that the people that re manufacture some of these parts never have tested them before selling them. Be nice to see some legislation prohibiting this type of fraud. It would be good to have a vendor and parts rating system amongst ourselves so that others could be made aware of these pitfalls.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705