REAR Seatbelts

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jcwconsult
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Post by jcwconsult »

The research on lap-only belts is well known, three points are the only way to go. My US version 365 came with manually adjusted three point belts, front and rear - with only one buckle for each seat. There is a double loop at the buckle on the strap coming from the shoulder portion which allows a big range of adjustment. You can make big changes in the total length, and in the proportion of shoulder strap versus the outboard side of the lap strap. The inboard lap strap with the tongue for the buckle is also adjustable - just like aircraft belts. If you duplicate that style of belt for front and rear and use large reinforcements for the bolts, they should work very well - both for kids and for adults.
Jim Walker
365 GT 2+2 #12451
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TOMKIZER
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Post by TOMKIZER »

jcwconsult wrote:The research on lap-only belts is well known, three points are the only way to go. My US version 365 came with manually adjusted three point belts, front and rear - with only one buckle for each seat. There is a double loop at the buckle on the strap coming from the shoulder portion which allows a big range of adjustment. You can make big changes in the total length, and in the proportion of shoulder strap versus the outboard side of the lap strap. The inboard lap strap with the tongue for the buckle is also adjustable - just like aircraft belts. If you duplicate that style of belt for front and rear and use large reinforcements for the bolts, they should work very well - both for kids and for adults.
I've also heard reports of two-point rear belts resulting in spinal damage. By the way, thanks, Jim, for that unsolicited info about your 365 rear belts. It answered a question that I was preparing to post. I've been looking at a site called www.wescoperformance.com where they sell the three-point non-retractable belts you mentioned. It seems that none of the manuals or parts books clearly show how seat belts were configured - at least my 365 books don't. My 1969 Italian version 365 had aftermarket FIAT belts when I bought it in 1985 in the U.S. How are your 365 front belts configured? Are they retractable? If so, where is the retractor mounted and how are they routed?
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
jcwconsult
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Post by jcwconsult »

Hi, Tom. The belts are not shown, even in the Pininfarina body parts book. They are mentioned on page 29 of my owners manual, but not pictured. All the belts are manual adjustment types, not inertia reels. The shoulder straps for the fronts mount on the rear quarters, about centered over the little rear seat storage cubby holes. The lap straps mount to the tunnel and the inner rocker areas. The rear shoulder straps mount on the flat shelf under the rear window, most of the way back toward the bottom of the window. The lap straps mount under the seats, and I don't know exactly where. Check the underside of the rear shelf on your car, you might find a mounting point for the rear shoulder straps. The same might be true for the front shoulder strap mount points. Some makers welded in the nut plates, even on cars that did not get the belts. All the belts have a lift up release (not a button), just like aircraft belts. The website you mentioned shows the manual 3 points, though the buckles and the adjustment points are different.
Jim Walker
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Post by TOMKIZER »

Jim,
The info you just posted will allow me to replace my "cobble job" belt system with an "as built" system. I have all the attachment points that you described but my current system is a retractable three-point front, non-retractable two-point back design, with the retractors on the lap portion (backwards) and in the way of the rear passenger's feet. The site I mentioned also sells the aircraft "flip-up" type buckle. You just put me back in business regarding my restoration wrap-up. Mine is a 365 GT 2+2 but any info or help I can provide anyone will be my pleasure to provide. Sorry for the hijack, but thanks for the belt clarification.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
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Post by TOMKIZER »

Sorry, I just realized that wescoperformance does not offer the flip-up buckle with the non-retractable three-point system but Andover Restraints does.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
Grigio330GT
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I finally mounted retractable 3 point belts in the back

Post by Grigio330GT »

Well, I was the original poster for this thread. After reading the comments regarding 2 point vs 3 point belts, I finally decided to install retractable 3 point belts - I figure the kids safety is more important than perfect period correctness.

I worked with Boston Sports car to figure out how to do a clean installation. After a lot of test fits, we figured out way to do something that I think came out nicely. BS did all the fabrication. They retractor is installed in the trunk on the small slope near the bulkhead. The belt runs straight up through the package shelf steel panel, over a plastic guide, then horizontally under the leather shelf cover, then through a guide, up through the leather cover and over the seat back. Attempt to attach pics to follow:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
I have received a lot of help from this forum, and hope these pics help those who may want to do something similar.

Dave
SN 7895
Dave Michael
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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson »

Excellent work Dave! That is a very clean installation, that looks comfortable as well. I will definitely keep that in mind for my car.
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330GT
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Post by 330GT »

Dave and I have been discussing this offline. It is a very neat installation with several good ideas.

If I were doing this, I would consider putting the retractors in the speaker wells with appropriate bracing, using smaller speakers if necessary. That would eliminate some of the work and the retractors would not be in the way in the trunk. However, it would mean having to remove the fuel tank for access to outside of the speaker wells.

Since the fuel tank sits below the speaker wells, another choice would be to mount the retractors high up on the bulkhead in the trunk. That would get them out of the way and still allow for normal speakers. This might also work on earlier cars that don't have speaker wells.
Regards, Kerry
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Grigio330GT
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Re: REAR Seatbelts

Post by Grigio330GT »

repost of my note from march 3008 to update the photos:

Well, I was the original poster for this thread. After reading the comments regarding 2 point vs 3 point belts, I finally decided to install retractable 3 point belts - I figure the kids safety is more important than perfect period correctness.

I worked with Boston Sports car to figure out how to do a clean installation. After a lot of test fits, we figured out way to do something that I think came out nicely. BS did all the fabrication. They retractor is installed in the trunk on the small slope near the bulkhead. The belt runs straight up through the package shelf steel panel, over a plastic guide, then horizontally under the leather shelf cover, then through a guide, up through the leather cover and over the seat back. Attempt to attach pics to follow:
Attachments
Through Guide Under Leather Cover
Through Guide Under Leather Cover
through guide.jpg (45.18 KiB) Viewed 6902 times
Through Leather Cover and Over Seat
Through Leather Cover and Over Seat
through leather shelf cover and over seat back.jpg (43.64 KiB) Viewed 6914 times
Finished Install
Finished Install
finished.jpg (53.71 KiB) Viewed 6914 times
Dave Michael
330 GT 7895
Grigio330GT
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Re: REAR Seatbelts

Post by Grigio330GT »

Remaining 3 pics
Attachments
Mounting in Trunk
Mounting in Trunk
michael 330 008.jpg (50.62 KiB) Viewed 6896 times
Up From Trunk
Up From Trunk
up through package shelf (and over AM speaker).jpg (42.74 KiB) Viewed 6894 times
Over Shelf (and Speaker)
Over Shelf (and Speaker)
accross package shelf (plastic guide in hole not shown).jpg (46.59 KiB) Viewed 6894 times
Dave Michael
330 GT 7895
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