Is it time to Sell?

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

Post Reply
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:00 pm

John,

I find the internal design of the Lagonda motor so interesting. Especially the way the crankshaft is constructed and how it is supported in the crankcase. I have never seen such a system before. The crankshaft has to be slid in from behind to insert it into the crankcase. Wild.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

User avatar
John Vardanian
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
Location: San Francisco Area

Post by John Vardanian » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:28 am

Yes. The famous "cheeses" that wrap around the journals...

Rudy, I don't think WO Bentley was all that innovative with this design. Have you ever seen a Dusenburg J motor up close? Look at one and compare it to the Lagonda engine and ask yourself who copied whom.

john
PF Coupe

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:53 am

John,

I haven't had the privilege of studying a real Duesenberg motor up close.
Will have to check that one out! I might learn something here.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

Jim Wickstead
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:41 am
Location: new jersey
Contact:

Post by Jim Wickstead » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:25 pm

I saw a Dussy engine disassembled some years ago. Very interesting crankshaft. The counterweights were actually hollow and filled with mercury. They used a bevel gear set up to drive the camshafts. Very difficult but uncompromising design. Getting the backlash right was interesing. Lagonda solved it with a telescoping shaft, as I recall. Another (American) car used a bevel gear drive on a single overhead cam engine. Know which one it was? Hint: used in a number of italian race cars.

Jim

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:40 pm

Frontenac?

My mother's type 40A Bugatti has a bevel gear driven camshaft. SOHC four cylinder.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

whturner
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:48 am
Location: Western PA
Contact:

Post by whturner » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:57 pm

Jim Wickstead wrote:I saw a Dussy engine disassembled some years ago. Very interesting crankshaft. The counterweights were actually hollow and filled with mercury. They used a bevel gear set up to drive the camshafts. Very difficult but uncompromising design. Getting the backlash right was interesing. Lagonda solved it with a telescoping shaft, as I recall. Another (American) car used a bevel gear drive on a single overhead cam engine. Know which one it was? Hint: used in a number of italian race cars.

Jim
Hi Jim:

Was that a Crosley Hotshot? That is the only one I can imagine.

Cheere
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069

User avatar
klv
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:56 am
Location: Sunbury, UK

Post by klv » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:01 am

An interesting thread. I'm glad that you are planning to keep the 330 Tom - you'll be able to take Kelly and I for a ride in it when we finally make it to NY! (That's one of the big advantages of the 2+2s!)

I was surprised to read about capital gains taxes being applied to cars. Can someone explain the US system on that? We've got no CG tax on vehicles in Australia (but we do have it on other things...)

Cheers
Andrew Stevens
Kelly La Velle & Andrew Stevens

william
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:39 pm
Location: Rochester, Indiana

Post by william » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:37 am

From my understanding, capital gains tax would be reported on your annual taxes and would be some where around 15% less the the purchase cost and any matenance expenses that you can provide proof of.

May even be able to use storage expenses as a deduction, not sure.
William
1979 Avanti s/n Rqb-3016
1962 GTE s/n 3447
1960 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider 1495*09775

william
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:39 pm
Location: Rochester, Indiana

Post by william » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:48 am

BTW,

I'm not an accountant. My disclaimer. :)
William
1979 Avanti s/n Rqb-3016
1962 GTE s/n 3447
1960 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider 1495*09775

Jim Wickstead
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:41 am
Location: new jersey
Contact:

Post by Jim Wickstead » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:00 pm

Hi Warren,

Crosley it is!.

Starting life at as a 750cc engine with 26hp it quickly doubled hp and ultimately reached up to 65hp. Its overhead cam no head design (leading to incredible compression rations) quickly caught the eye of Italian companies, the best know of which was Bandini and Nardi.

Rudy’s Mom’s car (Bugatti 40… what an interesting lady!!) had a similar gear drive for the camshaft. I don’t know much about the Frontenac other than it was an early 30’s Canadian car, with the FMC selling a model of the same name

I used to see both Crosley and later Bandini twin cam engines being rebuilt at Tony Pompeo’s shop in NYC in the late 50’s. The engines needed some help (forged crankshaft, duraluminum con rods and straps on the mains to keep everything together, but they were the pride of the USA and also the basis for many successful Italian small bore and USA class H racers. I got the bug really bad!

Regarding selling a Ferrari: I’ve only partnered with the IRA once. My advice…never sell!

Jim

whturner
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:48 am
Location: Western PA
Contact:

Crosley Racing Engines

Post by whturner » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:05 pm

Hi JIm:

Did they use the sheetmetal blocks or the cast blocks for the racing engines?

Cheers
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069

Jim Wickstead
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:41 am
Location: new jersey
Contact:

Post by Jim Wickstead » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:14 pm

Hi Warren,

The cast iron blocks were used. The brazed sheet metal blocks were a clever idea but they were subject to leaking.

I saw a Crosley engine at Pompeo's with the top shaved off and a twin cam head applied. Can't recall the drive configuration (can't believe it was a tower gear drive). I think it was a Bandini.

Later, my interest evolved to Abarth. And guess who designed the twin cam head for the Abarth engine? Hint... think Ferrari.

Jim

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:51 pm

Hi Jim,

The Frontenac car was a joint venture of Louis and Gaston Chevrolet and was an American built car and won Indy in 1920. This was a big event since that last American car to win Indy before that was 1912. From what I have read, the 1920 Frontenac (using a Monroe chassis) was a straight eight SOHC driven by a bevel gear. I believe a Frontenac won in 1921 as well.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

gerry
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:53 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Post by gerry » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:55 am

speaking about Mexicos and Lagondas...
what about one of the most underrated and undervalued 2+2-supercars, the Lamborghini Espada?
would be interested to know how it is to drive one of these monsters...
gerry
'62 250 GTE s/n 3619

Boxer42
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:51 am
Location: Europe

Post by Boxer42 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:45 am

tyang wrote:Hi Guys,

Thanks for the thought provoking comments!

When I arrived at Francois' shop, I was met with a Lusso in his garage! How fitting. I stopped to admire its lines as I always do whenever I see one, and today she only clouded my dreams even more! I know this morning I was pretty set on keeping my America, but do you have any idea how hard it is to resist the tempations of a Lusso!?!

In all seriousness, I doubt a Lusso will ever be in my reach, even a basket case car will cost my car plus cash, not to mention the resotoration costs once I have ownership. I can remember when I was buying my 330 America, a Lusso project could probably be bought for $75K, while drivers were selling for $120K. Those prices back then were all the money in the world, just like they are today in relative terms.

I absolutely loved restoring my 330 America, and am rewarded every day I get to drive my car, and even with the knowledge that it sits in my garage. i don't think it would so easy for me to simply sell it after all that work. Like I said, I think there is a part of me in this car that may not be separated so easily. I followed project33.com and I read recently he's selling his car after a similar amount of time building his car as mine. He'll use the money to finance the next project, but that's not me. I want to enjoy all the hard work I put into my car by driving it. I just miss working on it too! I guess I want my cake and I want to eat it too!

Taking the money and running? I don't think so. My wife and I talked about it, and although we could finance another trip for 6 months ( or longer) somewhere else in the world, not having a Ferrari would be too much of a sacrafice. I am lucky to have the opportunity to own this car, I'm not about to let it go!

Sell the car, buy a project GTC, pocket some cash? Hmmm....

Tom
Mike Sheehan has turned up a few barn find Lussos in need of a lot of love in the past year. You might check with him to see if he has anything of interest.

Post Reply