A Free Afternoon
A Free Afternoon
OK so my kid has been sick with the kissing disease for the last three weeks and I have been going a bit nuts as that has meant no drive arounds. As I discussed in my notes about the Superfast/SuperAmericas I have been wondering about different Ferrari models and thinking about how much two extra passengers in my car changes the cars driving feel. It's became obvious to me the 300 extra pounds makes a discernible difference. So here for, at least my amusement, is some notes based on me going into the books to do some comparisons. Since the books don't agree, I have listed a few of them when I have options. Even so there are all kinds of things I don't understand, like the 330GT tests at a lower weight then the GTE? Original factory specs come first:
500 Superfast weight 3086lb length 189.76in
(Practical Classics!) weight 3248
(Ferrari America, SA, SF) weight 3080lb
400 SuperAmerica
(Ferrari America, SA, SF) weight 2750lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3710 0-100mph 18.7sec
330GT (2+2) weight 3042lb length 190.55in
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3430lb 0-100mph 15sec
(Sporting Motorist) tested weight 3024 0-100mph 15.4sec
(Autocar) tested weight 3180 0-100mph 17.6sec
(Sports Car Graphic) tested weight 3387 0-100mph 16.8sec
330GTC weight 2866lb (2976lb for the 365GTC) length 176.in
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3455lb 0-100mph 16.7sec
365GT (2+2) weight 3483lb length 196.1in
(Consumer Guide on Ferrari) 0-100mph 18sec
(Road and Track) tested weight 4350 0-100mph 16.5sec
(Modern Motor) tested weight 3945 0-100mph 20.8sec
Daytona weight 3402lb length 174.2in
(Autocar) tested weight 3530 0-100mph 12.3sec
(Road and Track) tested weight 3380 0-100mph 12.6sec
365GTC/4 weight 3924lb length 179.13in
(Road and Track) tested weight 4135 0-100mph 19.3sec
275GTB weight 2425lb length 173.in ("Long Nose")
(1965 World Car Catalog) weight 2646lb
(Car and Driver) tested weight 2930lb 0-100mph 14.5sec
(Sports Car Graphic) tested weight 2980lb 0-100mph 14.6sec
(Autosport) tested weight 2912lb 0-100mph 12.5sec
275GTS weight 2535lb length 171.26in
(Road and Track) tested weight 3345 0-100mph 18.8sec
250LM
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2400lb
(1965 World Car Catalog) weight 1874lb length 157.83in
(Consumer Guide on Ferrari) 0-100mph 12sec
PF Coupe weight 2640lb length 181.8in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2800lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3020 0-100mph 17.5sec
250GTE weight 2822lb length 185.04in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 3100lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3473 0-100mph 22.8sec
(Autosport) weight 1ton,5cwt.3qrs. 0-100mph 20sec
(Sports Cars illustrated) tested weight 3810 0-100mph 18sec
SWB weight 2112lb length 163.38in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2400lb
(Sports Cars illustrated) tested weight 2595 0-100mph 15sec
Lamborghinin 400GT 2+2
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3245lb 0-100mph 17.8sec
Sorry that the way the board works my formating has gone by the wayside. Best, Yale
500 Superfast weight 3086lb length 189.76in
(Practical Classics!) weight 3248
(Ferrari America, SA, SF) weight 3080lb
400 SuperAmerica
(Ferrari America, SA, SF) weight 2750lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3710 0-100mph 18.7sec
330GT (2+2) weight 3042lb length 190.55in
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3430lb 0-100mph 15sec
(Sporting Motorist) tested weight 3024 0-100mph 15.4sec
(Autocar) tested weight 3180 0-100mph 17.6sec
(Sports Car Graphic) tested weight 3387 0-100mph 16.8sec
330GTC weight 2866lb (2976lb for the 365GTC) length 176.in
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3455lb 0-100mph 16.7sec
365GT (2+2) weight 3483lb length 196.1in
(Consumer Guide on Ferrari) 0-100mph 18sec
(Road and Track) tested weight 4350 0-100mph 16.5sec
(Modern Motor) tested weight 3945 0-100mph 20.8sec
Daytona weight 3402lb length 174.2in
(Autocar) tested weight 3530 0-100mph 12.3sec
(Road and Track) tested weight 3380 0-100mph 12.6sec
365GTC/4 weight 3924lb length 179.13in
(Road and Track) tested weight 4135 0-100mph 19.3sec
275GTB weight 2425lb length 173.in ("Long Nose")
(1965 World Car Catalog) weight 2646lb
(Car and Driver) tested weight 2930lb 0-100mph 14.5sec
(Sports Car Graphic) tested weight 2980lb 0-100mph 14.6sec
(Autosport) tested weight 2912lb 0-100mph 12.5sec
275GTS weight 2535lb length 171.26in
(Road and Track) tested weight 3345 0-100mph 18.8sec
250LM
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2400lb
(1965 World Car Catalog) weight 1874lb length 157.83in
(Consumer Guide on Ferrari) 0-100mph 12sec
PF Coupe weight 2640lb length 181.8in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2800lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3020 0-100mph 17.5sec
250GTE weight 2822lb length 185.04in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 3100lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3473 0-100mph 22.8sec
(Autosport) weight 1ton,5cwt.3qrs. 0-100mph 20sec
(Sports Cars illustrated) tested weight 3810 0-100mph 18sec
SWB weight 2112lb length 163.38in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2400lb
(Sports Cars illustrated) tested weight 2595 0-100mph 15sec
Lamborghinin 400GT 2+2
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3245lb 0-100mph 17.8sec
Sorry that the way the board works my formating has gone by the wayside. Best, Yale
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
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Yale: There is no way a 330GT would weigh 3000 pounds and change, but that was the factory claim, made over and over in spite of years of road tests to the contrary. . Enzo simply shaped his "claimed" data to the market. Weights and horsepowers were more aspirations than facts. Sometimes he even lowered horsepower because it suited his marketing strategy (e.g. the 275GTS or the 2.4 Dino engine in his 2400 Fiat Dino Spiders). My favorite story of his shaping of the market in horsepower was the Bill Harrah Daytona which was hugely "hot rodded" by the Factory and was tested by Road and Track who reported to an eager readership amazing performance, which began the Daytona legend. The production Daytona however, had significantly less horsepower, and more normal performance but, the market was made. Enzo was of that certain era that included guys like Charles Revson, who famously said Revlon "does not sell cosmetics it sells hope". Enzo would have understood that sentiment.
Michael J. Bayer
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193
What I was thinking of in listing all this stuff was not the discrepancy with the factories figures but instead the comparisons between the models. The Superfast and the 330GT are about the same length and weight. The Daytona, GTB and GTC are al about the same length, the GTC/4 is shorter then the PF Coupe. The 330GT tested faster to 100 then the GTC, could that be right, (for people who have driven both?) The GTE is seemingly much slower then most of the others listed. And the GTC/4 is also slower then the 330GT, (does it feel that way Sam?)
SWB length 163.38in
275GTS length 171.26in
275GTB length 173.in ("Long Nose")
Daytona length 174.2in
330GTC length 176.in
365GTC/4 length 179.13in
PF Coupe length 181.8in
250GTE length 185.04in
500 Superfast length 189.76in
330GT (2+2) length 190.55in
365GT (2+2) length 196.1in
0- 100
250LM 12sec
Daytona 12.6sec
275GTB 14.5sec
SWB 15sec
330GT (2+2) 16.5sec
330GTC 16.7sec
PF Coupe 17.5sec
365GT 18sec
400 SuperAmerica 18.7sec
275GTS 18.8sec
365GTC/4 19.3sec
250GTE 20sec
Lamborghinin 400GT 2+2 17.8sec
Yale
SWB length 163.38in
275GTS length 171.26in
275GTB length 173.in ("Long Nose")
Daytona length 174.2in
330GTC length 176.in
365GTC/4 length 179.13in
PF Coupe length 181.8in
250GTE length 185.04in
500 Superfast length 189.76in
330GT (2+2) length 190.55in
365GT (2+2) length 196.1in
0- 100
250LM 12sec
Daytona 12.6sec
275GTB 14.5sec
SWB 15sec
330GT (2+2) 16.5sec
330GTC 16.7sec
PF Coupe 17.5sec
365GT 18sec
400 SuperAmerica 18.7sec
275GTS 18.8sec
365GTC/4 19.3sec
250GTE 20sec
Lamborghinin 400GT 2+2 17.8sec
Yale
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
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- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:22 am
That's why I used the 0-100 numbers. And when I had multiple sources I cited them. Your story about Hurrah's Daytona explained a lot as this was the only car that some test results showed as being lighter then the factory specs. So all the in period testers must have used a souped up car...though Autocar is a UK mag.
Do folks have lot's of test reports on the 330GTC's? I only had one and I also had one on a 365GTC. Also the numbers I found showed the 400 Superamericas as being lighter then the 500 Superfasts and I wonder if this is acurate at all.
I will say that it's had to say what these 40 year old cars were like when new.
Best,
Yale
Do folks have lot's of test reports on the 330GTC's? I only had one and I also had one on a 365GTC. Also the numbers I found showed the 400 Superamericas as being lighter then the 500 Superfasts and I wonder if this is acurate at all.
I will say that it's had to say what these 40 year old cars were like when new.
Best,
Yale
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
GTC vs. 330GT
Hi Yale,
I have had the opportunity to compare the acceleration of a 330GT vs. my 330 GTC and found the 2+2 more graceful in it's pace to 100 than the GTC.
It's amazing what we can accomplish when we have some free time!
I've been comparing various brands of flat black paint to freshen up my lower radiator shroud as it has taken some stone chips due to some spirited canyon driving out here in LA. I doubt that this will generate the interest that your research has done.
All the best!
Chuck
I have had the opportunity to compare the acceleration of a 330GT vs. my 330 GTC and found the 2+2 more graceful in it's pace to 100 than the GTC.
It's amazing what we can accomplish when we have some free time!
I've been comparing various brands of flat black paint to freshen up my lower radiator shroud as it has taken some stone chips due to some spirited canyon driving out here in LA. I doubt that this will generate the interest that your research has done.
All the best!
Chuck
1967 330 GTC
S/N: 10539
S/N: 10539
I put the 365GT on a weighbridge one day for interest, and came up with 1695 kg with half a tank of fuel (circa 40-50 litres). Being brought up metric, it's hard for me to conceive of pounds of weight (like farenheit temps!), but that converts to about 3729 pounds I think?
Kelly La Velle & Andrew Stevens
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Yale I always "believed" the Road and Track as measured road test data which provides some performance comparisons I have the C4 and Daytona (including the Harrah hot rod review) I bet Kerry has the 330 series, others here could proved the balance. Now, if Admiral phillips can just find his R+T review of the Mondial!
Michael J. Bayer
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193
As far as I know, R&T never did a road test on the 330 2+2.Michael Bayer wrote:Yale I always "believed" the Road and Track as measured road test data which provides some performance comparisons I have the C4 and Daytona (including the Harrah hot rod review) I bet Kerry has the 330 series, others here could proved the balance. Now, if Admiral phillips can just find his R+T review of the Mondial!
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
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I think that it was a GTS.Rudy van Daalen Wetters wrote:Kerry,
Isn't there a Road and Track with Bill Harrahs' customized 330 GT on the cover which they tested?
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
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