A Free Afternoon

[Yale]

OK so my kid has been sick with the kissing disease for the last three weeks and I have been going a bit nuts as that has meant no drive arounds. As I discussed in my notes about the Superfast/SuperAmericas I have been wondering about different Ferrari models and thinking about how much two extra passengers in my car changes the cars driving feel. It's became obvious to me the 300 extra pounds makes a discernible difference. So here for, at least my amusement, is some notes based on me going into the books to do some comparisons. Since the books don't agree, I have listed a few of them when I have options. Even so there are all kinds of things I don't understand, like the 330GT tests at a lower weight then the GTE? Original factory specs come first:

500 Superfast weight 3086lb length 189.76in
(Practical Classics!) weight 3248
(Ferrari America, SA, SF) weight 3080lb

400 SuperAmerica
(Ferrari America, SA, SF) weight 2750lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3710 0-100mph 18.7sec

330GT (2+2) weight 3042lb length 190.55in
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3430lb 0-100mph 15sec
(Sporting Motorist) tested weight 3024 0-100mph 15.4sec
(Autocar) tested weight 3180 0-100mph 17.6sec
(Sports Car Graphic) tested weight 3387 0-100mph 16.8sec

330GTC weight 2866lb (2976lb for the 365GTC) length 176.in
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3455lb 0-100mph 16.7sec

365GT (2+2) weight 3483lb length 196.1in
(Consumer Guide on Ferrari) 0-100mph 18sec
(Road and Track) tested weight 4350 0-100mph 16.5sec
(Modern Motor) tested weight 3945 0-100mph 20.8sec

Daytona weight 3402lb length 174.2in
(Autocar) tested weight 3530 0-100mph 12.3sec
(Road and Track) tested weight 3380 0-100mph 12.6sec

365GTC/4 weight 3924lb length 179.13in
(Road and Track) tested weight 4135 0-100mph 19.3sec

275GTB weight 2425lb length 173.in ("Long Nose")
(1965 World Car Catalog) weight 2646lb
(Car and Driver) tested weight 2930lb 0-100mph 14.5sec
(Sports Car Graphic) tested weight 2980lb 0-100mph 14.6sec
(Autosport) tested weight 2912lb 0-100mph 12.5sec

275GTS weight 2535lb length 171.26in
(Road and Track) tested weight 3345 0-100mph 18.8sec

250LM
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2400lb
(1965 World Car Catalog) weight 1874lb length 157.83in
(Consumer Guide on Ferrari) 0-100mph 12sec

PF Coupe weight 2640lb length 181.8in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2800lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3020 0-100mph 17.5sec

250GTE weight 2822lb length 185.04in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 3100lb
(Road and Track) tested weight 3473 0-100mph 22.8sec
(Autosport) weight 1ton,5cwt.3qrs. 0-100mph 20sec
(Sports Cars illustrated) tested weight 3810 0-100mph 18sec

SWB weight 2112lb length 163.38in
(Ferrari 250 GT Cars) weight 2400lb
(Sports Cars illustrated) tested weight 2595 0-100mph 15sec

Lamborghinin 400GT 2+2
(Car and Driver) tested weight 3245lb 0-100mph 17.8sec

Sorry that the way the board works my formating has gone by the wayside. Best, Yale

[Michael Bayer]

Yale: There is no way a 330GT would weigh 3000 pounds and change, but that was the factory claim, made over and over in spite of years of road tests to the contrary. . Enzo simply shaped his "claimed" data to the market. Weights and horsepowers were more aspirations than facts. Sometimes he even lowered horsepower because it suited his marketing strategy (e.g. the 275GTS or the 2.4 Dino engine in his 2400 Fiat Dino Spiders). My favorite story of his shaping of the market in horsepower was the Bill Harrah Daytona which was hugely "hot rodded" by the Factory and was tested by Road and Track who reported to an eager readership amazing performance, which began the Daytona legend. The production Daytona however, had significantly less horsepower, and more normal performance but, the market was made. Enzo was of that certain era that included guys like Charles Revson, who famously said Revlon "does not sell cosmetics it sells hope". Enzo would have understood that sentiment.

[Yale]

What I was thinking of in listing all this stuff was not the discrepancy with the factories figures but instead the comparisons between the models. The Superfast and the 330GT are about the same length and weight. The Daytona, GTB and GTC are al about the same length, the GTC/4 is shorter then the PF Coupe. The 330GT tested faster to 100 then the GTC, could that be right, (for people who have driven both?) The GTE is seemingly much slower then most of the others listed. And the GTC/4 is also slower then the 330GT, (does it feel that way Sam?)

SWB length 163.38in

275GTS length 171.26in

275GTB length 173.in ("Long Nose")

Daytona length 174.2in

330GTC length 176.in

365GTC/4 length 179.13in

PF Coupe length 181.8in

250GTE length 185.04in

500 Superfast length 189.76in

330GT (2+2) length 190.55in

365GT (2+2) length 196.1in

0- 100
250LM 12sec
Daytona 12.6sec
275GTB 14.5sec
SWB 15sec
330GT (2+2) 16.5sec
330GTC 16.7sec
PF Coupe 17.5sec
365GT 18sec
400 SuperAmerica 18.7sec
275GTS 18.8sec
365GTC/4 19.3sec
250GTE 20sec

Lamborghinin 400GT 2+2 17.8sec

Yale

[Stephanm]

I think 500lbs should be added to each of those figures. A Daytona and C/4 weigh nearly 4000 lbs. Ferraris are absolutely not light cars!!

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

GTE numbers sure look very slow. Also, a 330 GT faster than a 330 GTC? I would not have predicted that either.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[Michael Bayer]

I really think these cars were never built for the whole "drag race" bit, that said, there is no way a 330GT and a 365GTC4 are the even close, the C4 is one tenth of a second slower 0-60 than a Daytona.

[Yale]

That's why I used the 0-100 numbers. And when I had multiple sources I cited them. Your story about Hurrah's Daytona explained a lot as this was the only car that some test results showed as being lighter then the factory specs. So all the in period testers must have used a souped up car...though Autocar is a UK mag.

Do folks have lot's of test reports on the 330GTC's? I only had one and I also had one on a 365GTC. Also the numbers I found showed the 400 Superamericas as being lighter then the 500 Superfasts and I wonder if this is acurate at all.

I will say that it's had to say what these 40 year old cars were like when new.

Best,

Yale

[67GTC]

Hi Yale,

I have had the opportunity to compare the acceleration of a 330GT vs. my 330 GTC and found the 2+2 more graceful in it's pace to 100 than the GTC.

It's amazing what we can accomplish when we have some free time!

I've been comparing various brands of flat black paint to freshen up my lower radiator shroud as it has taken some stone chips due to some spirited canyon driving out here in LA. I doubt that this will generate the interest that your research has done.

All the best!

Chuck

[Chris Coios]

Keep in mind also that various rear axle ratios were offered, which would have influence on the acceleration times, both comparing model types and comparing examples of the same type.

[klv]

I put the 365GT on a weighbridge one day for interest, and came up with 1695 kg with half a tank of fuel (circa 40-50 litres). Being brought up metric, it's hard for me to conceive of pounds of weight (like farenheit temps!), but that converts to about 3729 pounds I think?

[Michael Bayer]

Yale I always "believed" the Road and Track as measured road test data which provides some performance comparisons I have the C4 and Daytona (including the Harrah hot rod review) I bet Kerry has the 330 series, others here could proved the balance. Now, if Admiral phillips can just find his R+T review of the Mondial!

[330GT]

Yale I always "believed" the Road and Track as measured road test data which provides some performance comparisons I have the C4 and Daytona (including the Harrah hot rod review) I bet Kerry has the 330 series, others here could proved the balance. Now, if Admiral phillips can just find his R+T review of the Mondial!

As far as I know, R&T never did a road test on the 330 2+2.

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

Kerry,

Isn't there a Road and Track with Bill Harrahs' customized 330 GT on the cover which they tested?

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[330GT]

Kerry,

Isn't there a Road and Track with Bill Harrahs' customized 330 GT on the cover which they tested?

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

I think that it was a GTS.

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

Yep, you're right.....330 GTS

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705