Aircraft engines

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Stephanm
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Aircraft engines

Post by Stephanm »

Tom,

Great post on the aircraft engines at the Museum. What I cannot fathom is how much they must have cost to build when you consider the design and testing costs. It is not as though they made over a million as Toyota has with there much less complex22R engine!
The stress and longevity testing alone must have cost a fortune considering all of the exacting maintenance programs. Valve adjustment?

Thanks for sharing Tom.
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

I think the answer may be that labor was so much cheaper back when those motors were built. Nowadays, they would obviously cost a fortune to make. Also, like the DC - 3 airplane, these motors must have been 'overbuilt' sacrificing weight and efficiency in order to achieve tremendous reliablity. On a side note, out here in a museum in Griffith Park called Travel Town (near LA) lies a behemoth airplane motor on exhibit that was built by BMW in 1945. These motors were to power an aircraft ordered by Adolph Hitler as a last ditch effort to drop a bomb on New York City. True story.

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tyang
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Post by tyang »

Many technological advances came from advent of war. Aviation definitely improved in leaps and bounds during each war. With cheap labor, goverment contracts, and a desire to win a war spurred people on.

What must be expensive is restoring and maintaining these machines today! Makes restoring a Ferrari seem like child's play!

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Post by airsanford »

The Wright 3350 was the first aircraft engine to make 1 horsepower per pound of weight. The B-29 was the first aircraft powered by the 3350; contrary to the museum display, they did not have turbos. The 749 Connies were powered with a development of the B-29 engine. The 1049 Connies and DC-7C used the 3350 "Turbo Compound" engines that used 3 exhaust driven power recovery turbines geared to the crankshaft. They had overrunning clutches to keep the crankshaft from driving the turbos at slower engine speeds. Each turbo was good for an additional 300 HP. These engines also had 2 stage supercharging (even the non turbo versions.)

The non turbo engines were about 2500 HP; the TC engines 3500, and were pushing 4000 at the end. The Wright 3350 was the absolute zenith in piston aircraft engine development. Each one has nearly 20,000 parts.

Really cool stuff, and we'll never see anything like them ever again.


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Art S.
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Post by Art S. »

Tom,

That ebay engine was discussed in an aircraft forum; the comments made suggest that it may no longer be good as a rebuild core and that it is too expensive at $12K.

Also a rebuild on a non-turbocompound 3350 is about $150K (according to the same aircraft forum).

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Post by tyang »

Here's a link a viewer sent in for more radial engine envy!

http://www.enginehistory.org/ModelEngin ... xhibit.htm

Tom
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David Booth
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Post by David Booth »

The aircraft engines of the piston era really are magnificent pieces of mechanical art. A big Merlin in-line engine as used in the P-51 Mustang looks remarkably like a super-sized Ferrari V-12.

Tom: a potential suitable example of a radial engine to add to The Yang Collection might be the Continental R975.

While developed as an aircraft powerplant, the R975 saw its greatest use in the US M4 and M4A1 Sherman medium tanks in the European and Pacific Theaters of World War II, from their first deployment in 1942 through the end of the war in 1945; although beginning in the second half of 1944, they were supplanted as fast as possible by the M4A3 series of improved Shermans, which used a Ford V8 specifically developed for tank use.

The Continental was a nine-cylinder (single row) air-cooled radial designed by Curtiss-Wright, and displacing 975 cubic inches. It was very thirsty - 175 gallons of 80-octane fuel would yield 100 miles of range, but keep in mind it was also pushing 33 tons of steel around. It made 400 horsepower at 2400 rpm.

Here’s a picture sequence of one being rebuilt:
http://www.atn-aircraft-division.nl/fot ... 90012.html

..and a video of one running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ntf7XY ... re=related

The maintenance companies attached to the tank outfits in the ETO had developed their skills to the point where they could swap a rebuilt engine into a disabled Sherman in the field – not in a shop – in about three-and-a-half hours.

My dad was a tank commander in a Sherman in World War II. I’m working on a website to commemorate his outfit and in the process have interviewed a few of his surviving comrades. My dad’s feet were frostbitten during the bitter cold winter of 1944-45 and I had always wondered why the crews didn’t stay in their tanks where it would presumably be warmer. One veteran explained it to me: “In the first place, you just couldn’t warm them up inside - they were as cold inside as it was outside, just without the wind. And those damned things were so noisy inside, it started to work on your mind after a while. We got out of them whenever we could”.

Now this would be a restoration project. Try finding a gasket set for one of those beasts.
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Post by Michael Bayer »

Another tank engine found a home in one of Jay Lenno's cars! http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/tankcar_shell.shtml
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Post by tyang »

The aircraft engines of the piston era really are magnificent pieces of mechanical art. A big Merlin in-line engine as used in the P-51 Mustang looks remarkably like a super-sized Ferrari V-12.
Steve, the guy who sent me the Barcelona link pointed out the Merlin V-12 created in 1/5 scale. 27 liters divided by 5 is a 5.4 liter V-12. Hmmmm.

Image
When I was in Melborne, I found this Merlin hiding in a warehouse. When I asked what the owner was going to do with it, he said, "I don't know, but I've always wanted a Merlin V-12!" I guess that'll be my answer if I ever end up owning a radial engine!
My dad was a tank commander in a Sherman in World War II. I’m working on a website to commemorate his outfit and in the process have interviewed a few of his surviving comrades.
Please let us know when the website is online!

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Post by whturner »

David Booth wrote:The aircraft engines of the piston era really are magnificent pieces of mechanical art. A big Merlin in-line engine as used in the P-51 Mustang looks remarkably like a super-sized Ferrari V-12.

Tom: a potential suitable example of a radial engine to add to The Yang Collection might be the Continental R975.

While developed as an aircraft powerplant, the R975 saw its greatest use in the US M4 and M4A1 Sherman medium tanks in the European and Pacific Theaters of World War II, from their first deployment in 1942 through the end of the war in 1945; although beginning in the second half of 1944, they were supplanted as fast as possible by the M4A3 series of improved Shermans, which used a Ford V8 specifically developed for tank use.

There was a TV show detailing the rebuild /restoration of a WWII tank used

The Continental was a nine-cylinder (single row) air-cooled radial designed by Curtiss-Wright, and displacing 975 cubic inches. It was very thirsty - 175 gallons of 80-octane fuel would yield 100 miles of range, but keep in mind it was also pushing 33 tons of steel around. It made 400 horsepower at 2400 rpm.

Here’s a picture sequence of one being rebuilt:
http://www.atn-aircraft-division.nl/fot ... 90012.html

..and a video of one running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-ntf7XY ... re=related

The maintenance companies attached to the tank outfits in the ETO had developed their skills to the point where they could swap a rebuilt engine into a disabled Sherman in the field – not in a shop – in about three-and-a-half hours.

My dad was a tank commander in a Sherman in World War II. I’m working on a website to commemorate his outfit and in the process have interviewed a few of his surviving comrades. My dad’s feet were frostbitten during the bitter cold winter of 1944-45 and I had always wondered why the crews didn’t stay in their tanks where it would presumably be warmer. One veteran explained it to me: “In the first place, you just couldn’t warm them up inside - they were as cold inside as it was outside, just without the wind. And those damned things were so noisy inside, it started to work on your mind after a while. We got out of them whenever we could”.

Now this would be a restoration project. Try finding a gasket set for one of those beasts.
There was a TV show covering the rebuild/restoration of, among other WWII equipment, a tank (I think it was a Sherman) by an outfit in Southern England. I have since looked for the show, or a web site associated with it, to no avail. Does that ring any bells?

Cheers
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Post by davidoloan »

David,

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Post by davidoloan »

Salvage Squad was shown on Channel 4 originally in the UK.
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsi ... quad_2002/

My favorite was the Bristol. They always appeared to do the restorations in about 2 weeks; the magic of television.
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Post by whturner »

davidoloan wrote:"Salvage Squad" maybe?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0315058/
Yes - that was the show - I saw part of it on TV when I walked through the room. And not a Sherman, but a much better tank, after all.
It will probably repeat some time - now I know what to look for.

Thanks and Cheers
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Art S.
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Post by Art S. »

Tom,

I think your calculation is off on the 1/5 scale displacement. For displacement volume, it's 1/5 cubed. In other words you have to divide the original displacement volume by 125 to get the 1/5 scale volume.

Regards,

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Post by klv »

A Jaguar owning friend of my fathers has a crate Merlin engine in his shed similar to the one Tom pictured - and for similar reasons! Some years ago the military discovered a few still crated up from WW2 in a warehouse somewhere in Australia and flogged them off, so there are a few about. There has been the odd Merlin powered car built at times too - bit of an engineering challenge!
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