Rebuild Starter or Fit Modern One?

[hangten]

The starter failed on my 250 Lusso.
Should I have it rebuilt or fit one of the modern replacements?
I would love to hear the pros and cons.
Aloha,
Mark

[TOMKIZER]

The starter failed on my 250 Lusso.
Should I have it rebuilt or fit one of the modern replacements?
I would love to hear the pros and cons.
Aloha,
Mark

Mark,
I fitted a modern one on my 365 GT 2+2, in fact, the ones advertised on ebay use a photo of my original one beside my new one. They used my starter as a guide to make the new ones fit V12 Ferraris (replacement for Marelli MT-21T). I'm happy with mine. It cranks much faster, doesn't draw down the battery and starts almost instantly. Because I provided the model for the starter, I paid a lot less than they are asking for the ones on ebay. The starter is hidden under the starter heat shield and is almost impossible to see, so unless someone knows it has a modern starter, it will never be detected. I put my original one in a box to sell with the car someday just in case someone wants to repair it and reinstall it. The original was a b---h to remove but the new one was a piece of cake to install.
In the end, I don't know how meticulous the judges are in examining the engines (using mirrors? getting under the cars?), but if they only evaluate what they see from above the engine, they'll never know.
Good luck with the decision.
Tom Kizer

[David Booth]

Tom K: Out of curiosity, what does the modern starter motor sound like? Does it have that distinctive moan that I associate with mine (probably a combination of the starter motor itself, the pinion/ring gear combination, and the engine mechanicals stirring)?

[TOMKIZER]

Tom K: Out of curiosity, what does the modern starter motor sound like? Does it have that distinctive moan that I associate with mine (probably a combination of the starter motor itself, the pinion/ring gear combination, and the engine mechanicals stirring)?

David,
My original one (bad nose bushing) struggled to crank fast enough to start so it sounded like, "Ruhn - ruhn - ruhn - ruhn". The new one cranks so fast that I can no longer hear the compression strokes. It cranks at a high and almost constant speed until it fires, usually about 2 - 3 seconds. I sounds more like a turbine engine firing up. When it's warmed up, I don't hear the startter at all. It fires instantly. I would describe a cold start as:

Wheeeeeeeeee, Vroom"

There is no more "indecision" about whether it starts or stalls. When it starts, it's like an explosion of power. I love it.
Please forgive the visual sound effects. It's hard to describe sound without sound.
Tom Kizer

[hangten]

I appreciate the input on this. Sounds like the modern replacement works better, and is easier to get in and out if service is needed. I will probably go that route.
Thanks1
Mark

[tyang]

I've also heard the draw from the modern high torque starters is a lot less than the original starter motors allowing more voltage for a good strong spark. I would miss the Rerrr-Rerrr-Rerrr of old starter sound after the click click click of the fuel pump!

Tom

[zac]

For what it's worth I have done a couple of the modern starter replacements and although I think it is the best solution possible. Customers have had varying opinions. The stock starter has a unique sound, draws a lot of amps, barely spins the motor fast enough and is very susceptible to heat soak do to the proximity of the headers. the modern replacement starter is basically the same set up used on modern Toyotas and such, it has a distinctive sound that does not sound like the original but it is smaller, can be clocked to work on early motors or late ones and with some mods can even be made to work on the Lampredi cars, the contacts are accessible so you don't spend an hour trying to tighten the positive lead and it's smaller size puts it further away from the headers which in my opinion should make it nearly bullet proof. All that being said I have a car coming back to me to put the stock starter back on because the customer just does not like the sound or look of the modern replacement. My thoughts are put the starter in there that works and keep the relic on the shelf to go with the car if it is ever sold.

Zac

[John Vardanian]

Hi Mark,

My two cents... fitting a modern starter, optical ignition, spark amplifiers, glass pack mufflers, Yokohama tires and all of that is sacrilegious, regardless of the fact that these things do actually make life easier for the owner.

john

[xs10shl]

Can you post a link to the company which produces the starter you're looking at?

I've had a few originals fail to work when the engine is hot, and it is most annoying.

[xs10shl]

In the end, I don't know how meticulous the judges are in examining the engines (using mirrors? getting under the cars?), but if they only evaluate what they see from above the engine, they'll never know.

My guess is that they'd know as soon as you turned the key, but this would only be an issue if you are actually planning on having your vehicle judged. Sounds like it's quite simple to bolt on/off for shows.

[tyang]

My guess is that they'd know as soon as you turned the key, but this would only be an issue if you are actually planning on having your vehicle judged. Sounds like it's quite simple to bolt on/off for shows.

removing a stock starter from some 250 series engines is a royal pain in the a**! The header heat shield has to come off along with the rear header and started heat shield. This can easily become a 2-3 hour job provided there are no problems!

Tom

[330GT]

Can you post a link to the company which produces the starter you're looking at?

I've had a few originals fail to work when the engine is hot, and it is most annoying.

See their current eBay auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0201595366

[tyang]

This guy contacted me over a year and a half ago about starters for V-12 Ferrari engines. He wanted to make them for 250s and 330s. I was working on getting one and trying it out, but never followed up as Francois still wanted to use the original starters. As I said before, swapping starters is no easy task if he didn't like the new one.

I've been thinking about seeing if he could offer us a discount if I set up a link from this site, but didn't know if there is any interest. Let me know, and maybe we could increase our buying power at least to get a wholesale price.

www.britishstarters.com
(516) 978-6161 cell/wireless

Dr.Martin Ferrillo
38 Worth Road
Gansevoort, NY 12831
USA

Tom

[TOMKIZER]

Martin (British Starters) is the guy who borrowed my starter after I contacted them about a starter for my car. At the time, they didn't make Ferrari starter replacements. They're not cheap but my starter is great. Maybe your idea for a tomyang.net discount will work.
Tom Kizer

[Bryan P]

I bought a modern starter for my driver-MGA 1600 from Martin at britishstarters.com. It is a fantastic upgrade for the MGA whose stock starter has an exposed bendix - a couple months of road-gunk exposure and it gets gummed up. I'll never have that problem again with the new starter and it removes an item from the long list of crap that can go wrong on the MGA's 53 year-old design.

Martin was extremely helpful. The adaptor plate he sent me wasn't quite milled right for my particular MGA - it wasn't quite deep enough to allow the starter gear to disengage from the ring gear (that's a bad noise, BTW). He milled a new one and sent it to me less than a week later, free of charge.

I told him that if I was pleased with the starter that I might be back for one for the Ferrari.

Tom, since you'll be co-piloting w/ Mark Dempsey in his Queen next week, you'll find that he has made the conversion to the modern starter and loves it.

I'm kind of with Vardanian on the issue generally, but really on the fence when it comes to the starter, especially since you can't see it. It is usually this time of year when I go out to the garage and the 11 quarts in the sump are really cold, the battery is stressed and, at least on the queen, there are so many opportunities between key and solenoid for voltage drop, that the normally "charming" sound of the Ferrari starter becomes excruciating for me. The # of pumps on the throttle need to be exactly right and the battery fully charged when its 28 degrees, or it ain't going.

I've already added assist fans to the radiator and am thinking that I will do this starter conversion since my enthusiasm for showing this car is dwindling (that energy is going into the Mondial) and driving it is more powerful than ever.