Old verses New

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jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:42 pm

I feel really wierd now that I have an '83 308...am I no longer an OFG, or does having owned a 330 2+2 keep me in the club?

60 is not too far off...maybe it's time for a leisure suit, gold chains, and a razorcut hairstyle (I have too much hair for a combover) to go with the red GTS.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

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TOMKIZER
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Post by TOMKIZER » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:27 pm

jsa330 wrote:I feel really wierd now that I have an '83 308...am I no longer an OFG, or does having owned a 330 2+2 keep me in the club?

60 is not too far off...maybe it's time for a leisure suit, gold chains, and a razorcut hairstyle (I have too much hair for a combover) to go with the red GTS.
Being an OFG is two things, a state of mind (the 330 attests to that), and the first letter "O". Being retired attests to that. Don't worry - you're fine. Also you don't need to worry what others will think - by looking at your posts, we all know you can spell. There's the generational difference. I can almost see the grease under your fingernails.

Just don't go jumping into the car without opening the door and throwing gravel all over the place when you take off. That would tell everyone why you own a Ferrari GTS.

By the way, are my 1970s leisure suits really back in style? If so, I need to run to the pharmacy for some hair dye.
Tom K.
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

365gtc/4
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by 365gtc/4 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:32 pm

airsanford wrote:in this corner, REAL.
in the other corner, FAKE.

and in one small vignette, all that's wrong as the Empire unwinds.
So few words, yet so profound. I agree 100% and not to get too morose, it is everywhere in the western world.

Cheers
John
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.

365gtc/4
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Post by 365gtc/4 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:37 pm

And to add to what Michael said "Chat - My car prices My parts prices" read Chat How expensive my car is, I found a great place who sells inexpensive parts.
This is starting to sound like a mutual appreciation society, but I guess we have had similar life experiences and definitely share many interests so it is not too surprising.
Cheers
John
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:22 pm

Scolars hang out in the library. :-)

But seriously, I don't want to push this thread into the direction of "we know better, and they don't," because they're all not all like that. I had some very nice conversations with NFOs last weekend, and some of them actually like our cars.

If we close our minds to people we don't understand, we'll turn into our fathers telling us to turn that damn rock n' roll down!

Let's instead discuss how to strengthen the enthusiasm, and widen the appeal of these cars. Any thoughts?

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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Bryan P
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Post by Bryan P » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:31 am

I think it's pretty obvious what needs to be done; tomyang.net boot camp.

The young recruits have had their Sony playstations taken away and are lying in their bunks after a tough first day of classroom time on the basics of the internal combustion engine as well as garage time understanding where oil gets put in and drained from an engine.

Tom paces the quiet bunkhouse w/ his torque wrench at the ready to thunk any recruit who hasn't correctly memorized the tomyang.net credo:

This is my wrench.

There are many like it, but this one is MINE.

My wrench is my best friend. It is my life.

I must master it as I must master my life.

My wrench without me is useless. Without my wrench, I am useless. . . .

(w/ apologies to the United States Marine Corps and to all of you, I haven't had my coffee yet)
1968 365 GT 2+2
s/n 11199
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
s/n 0556(0446)MD
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:27 pm

TOMKIZER wrote:
Being an OFG is two things, a state of mind (the 330 attests to that), and the first letter "O". Being retired attests to that. Don't worry - you're fine. Also you don't need to worry what others will think - by looking at your posts, we all know you can spell. There's the generational difference. I can almost see the grease under your fingernails.

Just don't go jumping into the car without opening the door and throwing gravel all over the place when you take off. That would tell everyone why you own a Ferrari GTS.

By the way, are my 1970s leisure suits really back in style? If so, I need to run to the pharmacy for some hair dye.
Tom K.
Tom,

Thanks for your support.

I didn't get my first Ferrari, the 330, until I was 53, and bought the 308 very recently, at 58.

Yes, though I'm no Tom Yang, I have put in a respectable amount of wrench time. I'd have no apprehension about taking on another vintage 12 project; only $$$, insurance, and work space stand between me and it.

When we went to Vegas in Oct. '06, there were plenty of combovers, hairpieces, and gold chains...I think the leisure suits are museum
pieces now...scott
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:09 pm

I feel really wierd now that I have an '83 308...am I no longer an OFG, or does having owned a 330 2+2 keep me in the club?
Hi Scott,

You'll be surprised how much wrench turning you can do on that 308 of yours!

It's about attitude, and appreciation, not what car you own!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:47 pm

tyang wrote:
I feel really wierd now that I have an '83 308...am I no longer an OFG, or does having owned a 330 2+2 keep me in the club?
Hi Scott,

You'll be surprised how much wrench turning you can do on that 308 of yours!

It's about attitude, and appreciation, not what car you own!

Tom
Tom, I agree about attitude/appreciation. The change to the 308 is a lot of fun and a decision I'm happy with.

There's another V12 in my future, somewhere, sometime.

As soon as we settle on a permanent residence, a "living garage" is definitely in the plans, with a car lift to to facilitate maintenance of the 308 and to use in a future V12 project.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:44 pm

I would like to be the first one to sign up for the Tom Yang Boot Camp! I grew up with a father who had no interest in anything with an engine. I spent a reasonable amount of time keeping my Chevy Vega running, but am still pretty green in the mechanical area. However, I have always loved cars and things mechanical and learned the real value of a Ferrari early on. The restoration of a car has been one of my life goals since day one and for better or worse, the car I stumbled on to start with was a GTE.

Having no local mentors and very little room, I am working on the car one piece at a time; relying heavily on information from this site and whatever (skimpy) literature I can find. It is not easy to get a general automotive book or community college course that does not deal primarily with chips and fuel injection...

The good news is that the little I have done has been a blast and I have met some wonderful new friends along the way. I intend to continue to chip away at this massive project, learning as much as I can in the process. However, if Tom is taking deposits on this camp, send me the address!
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
250 GTE Register
http://www.250GTE.com

Koll
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Post by Koll » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:57 am

With all the information available with just a few clicks, there is no excuse for not knowing how something works. I'm Tom Y's age and like him, my dad could barely change a light bulb.

I consider it a personal failing if I don't know something I think I should. I'm very embarassed to say I don't know how to rebuild either a manual or automatic tranny. That will change, but I just don't go through clutches or gernade gearboxes! I grew up with carburators and found it really rewarding to learn the various Bosch fuel injection systems. It's not hard, just do it.

The way I see if, if some store (dealer) can hire some dude to do a procedure, then there's no reason why I can't do the same thing better as I don't have to beat the book or anything like that and can take the time needed. The only thing I find will probably not be do-able is rebuilding ABS pumps. Something about clean room factory procedures and other voodoo.

Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it Man Rule that a guy should know how a car works and how to fix most things?

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:46 am

I think I've been running a kind of classroom for the last 8 years, maybe just not quite a Boot Camp!

Like Koll, I've always had the attitude that if someone else with average intelligence can do something, then why can't I learn it. He also brings up a good point that professionals have to balance the quality of their work with how much the customer is willing to pay. Even at the level of shops I work with, there is contantly the discussion whether we think the customer will pay for some extra work like stripping and painting, or re-plating. When it comes to our own cars, and time, there is often no question about spending the extra time to get it just the we want it.
Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it Man Rule that a guy should know how a car works and how to fix most things?
I agree, but technology is moving so fast that it's hard to keep up. An example is when I got my first computer in 1991, I was able to teach myself how to get it to work, and tweak its operating system. Each subsequent version of Windows has gotten easier to use, and harder to figure out when it breaks. The same goes for everything else we have in modern society.

A phenomenom I've seen to try and solve this lack of time and commitment to learn real-world skills is the creation of simulations to replace what we subconsciously miss. I recently watched two teen age kids at a Best Buy playing the video game "Guitar Hero." The game has a mock guitar that the player holds, and he or she watches the screen for how to mock the notes (not real fingering) on the fret board of the guitar while the rock anthem of your choice is played. No skill is necessary, let alone musical talent, to move like a rock star. It's like Kararoke of guitar playing. What happend to the kids wanting to learn how to actually play guitar? I know it's not easy, but are we heading towards a society of spoon fed drones that are perfectly happy with these simulations? Will there someday be a virtual garage...wait a minute, have you seen the driving simulators where you can modify your car with the click of the joystick?

It's Sunday morning, and I feel like I should be stepping off my box at Hyde Park!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:46 pm

With all the information available with just a few clicks, there is no excuse for not knowing how something works.
I absolutely agree with Koll, as that is how I have gotten as far as I have on my car. However, learning one part at a time is not the same as going through the process from start to finish with a father, neighbor or other mentor. Books will tell you how to correctly assemble something, but tend to leave out the advice learned through the school of hard knocks, such as a modified tool to do the job better or reminding you to send parts out for plating at the beginning of the project instead of just before you want to install them.

I have learned a lot from this site, both from outright advice and from stories of others mistakes. I just would have liked to grow up in an atmosphere where working on things mechanical was the norm, so that I could work and contribute at a higher level than I do today. And as anyone in my age bracket knows, learning does not come as naturally today as it did when I was 40 years younger!
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
250 GTE Register
http://www.250GTE.com

afwrench
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Post by afwrench » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:47 pm

Bryan P wrote:I think it's pretty obvious what needs to be done; tomyang.net boot camp.

The young recruits have had their Sony playstations taken away and are lying in their bunks after a tough first day of classroom time on the basics of the internal combustion engine as well as garage time understanding where oil gets put in and drained from an engine.

Tom paces the quiet bunkhouse w/ his torque wrench at the ready to thunk any recruit who hasn't correctly memorized the tomyang.net credo:

This is my wrench.

There are many like it, but this one is MINE.

My wrench is my best friend. It is my life.

I must master it as I must master my life.

My wrench without me is useless. Without my wrench, I am useless. . . .

(w/ apologies to the United States Marine Corps and to all of you, I haven't had my coffee yet)
Seeing as how this is Ferrari boot camp will the meals be catered or do we have pull KP duty. I hated that !! Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:29 pm

Interesting observation on the spoon fed drone issue. I get the same feeling. I just can not envision a younger person saying, "Hey, lets try to synchronize those Webers on the V-12 today". What I see more of is, "I gotta cram one more sub woofer in the back of my WRX, dude".

All this 'sealed for life' crap nowadays is a bit too hypoallergenic for me.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1953 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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