Old verses New

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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:35 pm

Seeing as how this is Ferrari boot camp will the meals be catered or do we have pull KP duty. I hated that !! Mike
As long as we can get Dorrie to do the cooking, I will do the washing!
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
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BT
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Post by BT » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:41 pm

The new Ferrari owners, or any new car owner for that matter, have a somewhat different approach to sports cars today. Few have much interest in doing repairs / maintenance. Most are more concerned about options / colors / horsepower. The people driving Japanese sports cars prefer lots of bolt on dress up engine kits / audio upgrades, and ECU chip tuning. Because a Ferrari is devalued doing most of these things, the new owners have gravitated toward leaving the car stock and maybe changing the wheels out. I personally like the styling of the Vintage cars (I think that comes from owning a 1958 Alfa Giuletta in high school). To me the best way to spread the appreciation of the older cars is to go to events where some of the new car owners tend to congregate in your area. We have monthly dinners, and any sports car is welcome. An open attitude would definitely dispell the myth that vintage owners only go to shows with older cars as the only thing to see...
BT
1967 Ginetta G20

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sam231
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Post by sam231 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:19 pm

BT wrote:The new Ferrari owners, or any new car owner for that matter, have a somewhat different approach to sports cars today. Few have much interest in doing repairs / maintenance. Most are more concerned about options / colors / horsepower. The people driving Japanese sports cars prefer lots of bolt on dress up engine kits / audio upgrades, and ECU chip tuning. Because a Ferrari is devalued doing most of these things, the new owners have gravitated toward leaving the car stock and maybe changing the wheels out. I personally like the styling of the Vintage cars (I think that comes from owning a 1958 Alfa Giuletta in high school). To me the best way to spread the appreciation of the older cars is to go to events where some of the new car owners tend to congregate in your area. We have monthly dinners, and any sports car is welcome. An open attitude would definitely dispell the myth that vintage owners only go to shows with older cars as the only thing to see...
BT


So true. I wish I could trailer my car as it is now, in the midst of a valve adjustment and carburator rebuild, to a show with all the pieces lying on a sheet around the car. I think the sight of what's inside might inspire more appreciation for us and spark discussion (do they give prizes for works in progress?). The NFO (are we therefore OFO's) would finally get a chance to see in basic form what lurks underneath his plastic, ceramic and chrome turbocharged exterior! Might even get the tuners interest!
'72 365 GTC/4 # 14953; ex-owner 330 GT 2+2 # 8025 :>(

BT
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Post by BT » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:54 pm

I enjoyed seeing the vintage cars at Cavallino, but came to a somewhat sad conclusion. I am not a (potential) Vintage Ferrari Owner. As much as I like to looks of the cars, the thought of all the effort that is required to get full enjoyment from the car is more than I would enjoy. I will be content to be a spectator at vintage shows, and an enthusiast at the track. I intend to do the maintenance work on my 348, but that's as far as I think I am capable of. I really thought I would be swept up in the excitement of the big concours, but the opposite happened. I found myself enjoying the relaxation while the car owners spent the week worrying about many different things. Maybe in the future when I can afford it, if the vintage market ever goes backwards (not likely in my opinion), I would reconsider it. For now, I look forward to seeing the cars on the lawn....
1967 Ginetta G20

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:33 pm

BT, I didn't have the time either as a practicing architect...until you get them sorted, the old 12's are a fulltime job, and even then you're always messing with something.

I'm looking forward to a relatively clean-handed period with my 308, and need it because I once again have priorities that take precedence over cars. However, I expect to inevitably become involved with another V12 Ferrari project.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

BT
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Post by BT » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:43 pm

Yes, we architects are always short on time. I consider my 348 to be more of a new car (even though some refer to it as 'classic'). The newer sports car that I have (the Ginetta) was actually built in 2002, but is titled as a 1967 because it was designed back then. I intend to do some serious mechanical work on it this year. The funny thing is, because the drive train is relatively inexpensive, I can really drive the car hard in the mountains and not worry about the repair costs.
1967 Ginetta G20

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:27 pm

BT, I see you had an Alfa Giulietta. So did I, '61 coupe...awesome little car, but needy.

In 1973, the $1000 needed for an engine rebuild was two semesters tuition and books at the local state U.

If I never see my way clear to another 12-cyl Ferrari , another Giulietta could be my next choice.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

GlassGTB
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Post by GlassGTB » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:27 pm

The price of vintage 12s has gotten so high that I just could not afford one now. I am still a huge fan and hope to have one in the future. I love old cars the most. I would take a Daytona over an F430 or 599 anyday. I still like the newer cars (pre 360). A 348 or 355 are terrific value and are more practical for extended and more frequent use.

By the way, my 308 is a 1976 and has 4 carbs.......dont call me NFO!

donv
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Post by donv » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:49 am

I love my 365 2+2, and have owned it many years, but have only worked on it when I absolutely needed to (in other words, when I wasn't getting home unless I fixed it). That said, it's never left me completely stranded. Usually I can see that this doodad is supposed to be hooked up to that doohickey, and it's not, but a paperclip in the right spot, and... voila!

And I own a 456... so all of that, I think, puts me in the NFO category, I'm afraid. Can I still be a member of this site?
1969 365GT 2+2

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klv
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Post by klv » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:19 am

I feel that non V12 owners may be getting the impression that the older cars are a constant money and time pit here. I'm sure enough of us can confirm that it's not really like that. Looking at our car, it's really a case of regular and sympathetic maintenance (checking fluids, looking for leaks, odd noises etc) and the expensive rebuild type items more come about due to sheer age or the negative effects of previous owners that need to be rectified. Usually once they are sorted out, then the cars are usually very reliable. Mechanically they are normally very strong, which is perhaps why previous owners don't always maintain them like they should!

Our Club in here WA is generally populated with more modern machines, but as we are a fairly small group we all mix in anyway. It's always fun to take NFOwners for a run in the old car or pass them on a drive somewhere. I feel that it's better to mix in with them and if you are ever worried about it, just think about how much their cars are depreciating compared to yours and carry a smug smile!
Kelly La Velle & Andrew Stevens

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm

And I own a 456... so all of that, I think, puts me in the NFO category, I'm afraid. Can I still be a member of this site?
ALL are welcome! Even NFOs, because eventually, they'll become Old Ferrari Owners!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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Yale
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Post by Yale » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:36 pm

Isn't this the same discussion we have every year?

This is a hobby, aren't the young guys, (under 40), supposed to like new cars - except a few exceptions and the not-as-young guys like old cars - except quite a few more exceptions of those that wish themselves young.

When our cars were new the owners thought themselves Moss, Fangio, Hill or whomever. That relationship between sports car racers and the cars doesn't exist anymore.

Furthermore, in the sixties and seventies a used Ferrari, even a race car version, cost around 5 to 10% of what your house would cost, these days that is hardly the case either.

What I keep thinking about is I noticed when Tom and I went to the Nationals at Watkins Glen what a small world it is that we, (older car), Ferrari owners inhabit. There was David Carte, there was Peter Kalikow, there was that very pleasant fellow who sold his Microsoft stock and the judges were Parker Hall and the guy with parrot. Ferrari made about 3000 cars between 1947 and 1970, because a lot of these were 2+2's there might be less then 1/2 of that in existence. And then you have the cars not in the States or with owners who are extremely non-public and what is left? Maybe 400 cars/owners possibly who could go to events, (and out of that only a few do go). There are high schools in NYC larger then that.

When I asked Michael Greenspan, who went to Cavalino, about what that was like he mentioned the same thing, what a small club this really is. We here have a subset of the less then millionaire - old Ferrari owners and drivers, and over there are the multi million billionaire types who bring out something or some 5 things from their garage every year to show. And often the same people get a prize. You would think Kalikow would have enough because he is in essence competing with himself or competing with that fellow from Microsoft and since most of the cars in these shows are at a very high level the judging has to take into consideration other things.

I guess what I am saying is the world we want to be in is the world we have to create. And lucky for us Tom has started that creation with this site. There is a difference between old and new Porsche owners, old and new Aston Martin owners and on and on. And to some extent we have more in common with anyone with a pre 1966 European car then with a new Ferrari owner. (Not to disparage them or make them unwelcome because of course they are welcome.)

Yale
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:03 am

GlassGTB wrote:The price of vintage 12s has gotten so high that I just could not afford one now. I am still a huge fan and hope to have one in the future. I love old cars the most. I would take a Daytona over an F430 or 599 anyday. I still like the newer cars (pre 360). A 348 or 355 are terrific value and are more practical for extended and more frequent use.

By the way, my 308 is a 1976 and has 4 carbs.......dont call me NFO!
I've been both places now: Vintage 12 and rear-engine V8.

But does my current ride, a 25 year old 308 GTSi, make me a NFO?

I don't think so...like sex, it's all in the brain.

The esteemed Bill Pollard of Sport Auto, who did the PPI on my 308, considers anything past the 328 as New Ferrari, and doesn't work on them.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

afwrench
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Post by afwrench » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:20 pm

jsa330 wrote:
GlassGTB wrote:The price of vintage 12s has gotten so high that I just could not afford one now. I am still a huge fan and hope to have one in the future. I love old cars the most. I would take a Daytona over an F430 or 599 anyday. I still like the newer cars (pre 360). A 348 or 355 are terrific value and are more practical for extended and more frequent use.

By the way, my 308 is a 1976 and has 4 carbs.......dont call me NFO!
I've been both places now: Vintage 12 and rear-engine V8.

But does my current ride, a 25 year old 308 GTSi, make me a NFO?

I don't think so...like sex, it's all in the brain.

The esteemed Bill Pollard of Sport Auto, who did the PPI on my 308, considers anything past the 328 as New Ferrari, and doesn't work on them.
If sex is all in the brain ,how come I keep seeing all these Viagra commercials? Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:37 pm

afwrench wrote:If sex is all in the brain, how come I keep seeing all these Viagra commercials? Mike
Good question.

Perhaps...it's never worked for me, so sex is all in my brain.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

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