'61 250 GTE Restoration Project $95k in Las Vegas s/n 2947

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Benjamin
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'61 250 GTE Restoration Project $95k in Las Vegas s/n 2947

Post by Benjamin » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:12 pm

No affiliation with the seller. Just came across this on the Las Vegas Craig’s List. (http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/clt/576397208.html)

Owner has a website at http://www.1961gte250ferrari.com/, which transfers to the buyer. More pics.

Two questions:
(1) In my opinion, foglights mounted within the grille surround is appealing. Is this stock, common, an outrage or something else altogether?

(2) Price seems a bit ambitious given the lack of detail about its current condition. I would assume it is non-running and needs complete restoration, not just the interior, but I have not spoken with the owner about the condition. Any opinions?

Anyone know this car?
1964 330 GT 2+2 (s/n 5839)
1969 Intermeccanica Italia

Benjamin
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Post by Benjamin » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:13 pm

Here's the link to the website:

http://www.1961gte250ferrari.com/
1964 330 GT 2+2 (s/n 5839)
1969 Intermeccanica Italia

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:57 pm

As my father would say, "it's got possibilities"...
I am liking this car.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:22 am

Hi Guys,

The least these people could have done was ask for permission to take images off this website. Not very cool.

I've been in contact with the seller for several weeks, and have not been able to negotiate a deal. For many reasons, I am walking away.

Tom

P.S. Ask to see pictures of the interior.
'63 330 America #5053

AndrewW-G
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Post by AndrewW-G » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:51 am

You've got to love the marketing.........spend top money on a 250gte that looks like it needs everything and you get a $2.95 domain name thrown in.......do you think if you offered the full asking price he'd throw in the obviously original tool kit and jack in the boot / trunk :shock:
400 "30897" " Mondial "45461" & lots of other peoples toys at work

AndrewW-G
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Post by AndrewW-G » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:52 am

and you'd think that some indication as to it's condition would be better than knowing Eric Clapton once had a Lusso (he's also had a gte but dont tell this guy!)
400 "30897" " Mondial "45461" & lots of other peoples toys at work

Benjamin
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Post by Benjamin » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:39 am

Tom: If your pictures are copyrighted, he should have at least asked permission or given credit. You could send him a takedown notice, but the Internet is a pretty toothless place when it comes to enforcement, unless you are one of the big ones.

Can you post pictures of the interior? It looks like it's been sitting outside for years. Is it really in Las Vegas? That would be a tough place to sit outside for 35 years.

I notice it has a Euro speedometer - did you get any information about the history?

Are project GTEs really going for $95k? I assume if there was anything good here, Tom S. would have been there first.
1964 330 GT 2+2 (s/n 5839)
1969 Intermeccanica Italia

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:33 pm

Benjamin wrote:Tom: If your pictures are copyrighted, he should have at least asked permission or given credit. You could send him a takedown notice, but the Internet is a pretty toothless place when it comes to enforcement, unless you are one of the big ones.

Can you post pictures of the interior? It looks like it's been sitting outside for years. Is it really in Las Vegas? That would be a tough place to sit outside for 35 years.

I notice it has a Euro speedometer - did you get any information about the history?

Are project GTEs really going for $95k? I assume if there was anything good here, Tom S. would have been there first.
Hi Benjamin,

Notice has already been sent, but if there was no consideration when the pictures and text were stolen, I doubt they really care. I put copyrights at risk with whatever I put on the internet. It's what I sacrafice to have a this site on the internet.

Let's see if this guy posts pictures publically of the interior (or lack of) before I post them.

$95K is optimistic. Here's my math:

$15-25K to do engine (I don't care if it runs. It's got enough miles to warrent an inspection at the least.)

$15-25K to do the interior. (Seats have to built from scratch as there is no sign of the leather even for patterns)

$15-20K for paint

$5-10K for body (unknown condition of floors, outriggers, rockers so add accordingly.)

$3K for wheels

$10-20K for chrome, yes, that much. (not including finding correct front bumper.)

$2-5K brake system rebuild

$70-100K for just the short list. That's not including transmission service and rebuild, rear end service, front suspension rebuild and plating, and undercarriage stripping and painting. What about the wiring? windshield wiper motor? do the horns work? what other parts are missing and have to be found or made?

You can see how spending another $20-50K on all the other nickle and dime stuff is not out of the question. So at $100-150K, you'll have a car worth at tops $150-200K. Does that make $95K a good buy?

I know there are going to be a bunch of guys who are going to say they know someone who can paint a car for less, or do the interior for less, etc. But let me remind you that the prices Ferraris get are for cars that have been restored or preserved to the level that Ferraris are expected to be. That's just the market. An interior following the techniques used to make a Chevy will not look right on a Ferrari, and the selling price will suffer. Look at the Lusso at the Panel Shop I recently wrote about. Can any shop attain that level of work without body filler? The owner of that car will be able to get top dollar for that Lusso because it was done with the highest standard. Anyone paying top dollar for these cars will spot crappy workmanship. If they can't see quality work, a fool and his money are soon parted!

Tom S. and I have discusseed this car in great length, and we'll have to see what happens. I wanted to save this car and restore it, but at that price, I don't think anyone will step up to the plate to save it. As Tom S. says, it's all economics. I'm trying, but we may loose another one. Sad.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:30 pm

Tom,

I have spare seats for this car that you can have if you end up with it. Some other interior pieces as well. Knowing Tom S. has rubbed off on me a bit. Anyone with an antidote, please advise.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

jsa330
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Post by jsa330 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:06 pm

tyang wrote:Hi Guys,

The least these people could have done was ask for permission to take images off this website. Not very cool.

I've been in contact with the seller for several weeks, and have not been able to negotiate a deal. For many reasons, I am walking away.

Tom

P.S. Ask to see pictures of the interior.
Tom, you can see why I'm still PO'ed at the jerk who:

-paid too much for my totaled 330 at the insurance auction last August.

-then tried to unload it on Ebay without seeking permission to use a copyrighted page from the 330 Registry in his listing or editing previous ownership particulars out of this page.

-in these listings, made a whole load of false statements concerning the car's cheap 'n easy repairability.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:11 pm

Rudy,

This GTE looks like a pig to me. Note that the tail lights are S3 on an earlier car. Tom S. has a much better project availible - lete 330GT S2 PS, PW, AS, Wires for significantly less money.


Tom Y.,

To me that car is in much worse condition than your America was when you started.


To the owner of the GTE, I hope you sell it for close to what you are asking, it will mean that all of our cars are worth more than we thought!

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:51 pm

Art,

After 45 years, many of these cars are fright pigs. I happen to like pigs that may have a glimmer of salvation. This may be one. Sitting in that climate, it may not be a rust bucket like so many others. Ok, the lights are wrong but things like that can be addressed. There may be other things that are incorrect after so many years. My feeling is that the car should be saved. Once gone, a little more Ferrari legacy is lost forever. As Tom pointed out, it's all economics at this point that will decide the fate of this Cinderella.

I had thought of that 330 GT as well that Tom S. had for sale. The big concern with that car are all the rust issues. I am not sure if that car is still available.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:59 pm

Tom, you can see why I'm still PO'ed at the jerk who:

-paid too much for my totaled 330 at the insurance auction last August.

-then tried to unload it on Ebay without seeking permission to use a copyrighted page from the 330 Registry in his listing or editing previous ownership particulars out of this page.

-in these listings, made a whole load of false statements concerning the car's cheap 'n easy repairability.
Hi Scott,

Anyone who doesn't fact check before buying is looking for trouble. We swim among sharks. Don't trust anyone. I know I can sleep at night.
Tom,

I have spare seats for this car that you can have if you end up with it. Some other interior pieces as well. Knowing Tom S. has rubbed off on me a bit. Anyone with an antidote, please advise.
Thanks Rudy. This would have been a fun project to watch come back to life on this site, but maybe it was not meant to be, especially at $95K.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:07 pm

Rudy,

The Maroon 330 S1 is a dog. The Silver (sort of) 330 S2 is virtually rust free and very interesting. I passed, but just barely.

I promised to send Scott pictures, if I find your email, I'll copy you on them.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:18 pm

Rudy & Scott,

Pics sent.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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