Brake Rebuilding Project

xs10shl · Post by **xs10shl** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:50 pm

Nickel, huh? I've heard that from more than one source now, but I have other sources who swear that silver zinc is the way to go. As luck would have it, I happen to be reconditioning my brakes this week as well, hence my posting.

Being in LA, can you perhaps clue me in to who does yellow zinc down there?

I am being absurd-- I need to make sure that my internal brake screws and bolts, which I've now spent hours cleaning and polishing, which no one will ever see again once they are put back on the car, look correct.

Post by **tyang** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:42 pm

Tom are you nickel plating your caliper frames as opposed to silver zinc plating them?

I have a confession to make. Francois takes this stuff down to his plater and calls it "Nickel plating," but I've never asked his plater specifically what the process is. Francois often calls something one thing for lack of a better translation for him in english. I often forget that he may not know the specific word in english, and accept what he says literally. It took the longest time for me to realize when he asked for "white silicone," he was using "clear RTV."

I would trust Chris Coios when he specifies Clear Cad, since he's been an observer of Ferrari a lot longer than I:

If you are interested in originality, the plating for the caliper saddles, wheel cylinder castings, hardware and the bolts holding the wheel cylinders to the saddles is clear cadmium. The larger bolts holding the caliper saddle to the suspension are typically black oxide.

Tom Y.

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:53 pm

I have heard a lot about Nickel plating, but then again, I get most of my information from this site, so maybe that is why. Karp's is the first brake shop I will have the chance to ask this question. I will let you know what they say and maybe Francois' plater can tell us what is really being done at his shop.

Tom Y - Didn't you use nickel plating on your brakes, or did you just send them to Francois's guy and ask for nickel.

Post by **tyang** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:19 pm

Tom Wilson wrote:I have heard a lot about Nickel plating, but then again, I get most of my information from this site, so maybe that is why. Karp's is the first brake shop I will have the chance to ask this question. I will let you know what they say and maybe Francois' plater can tell us what is really being done at his shop.

Tom Y - Didn't you use nickel plating on your brakes, or did you just send them to Francois's guy and ask for nickel.

Hi Tom,

Francois' plater is a hour further than his shop, so he often makes the trip by himself. One of these days, I'll make it down there, but Francois took care of my plating, and told me it was nickel plated, but again, I never confirmed with the plater. I know that some of my pieces look like nickel, like the pitman arm, but there are other pieces that look like white cad, like the calipers.

Tom Y.

xs10shl · Post by **xs10shl** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:39 pm

I went by another shop this afternoon and took a look at some clear zinc pieces as well, and I guess he meant "Clear Cad". I'd have to say that that looks the most correct of what I've seen.

But then what about the other tiny stuff, like the bleeders and the like? I'd guess silver zinc for those types of pieces. Any comments?

airsanford · Post by **airsanford** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:46 pm

Its getting difficult to get real cad plating done anymore; cadmium is very toxic, and costs more per ounce than gold. My old plater used zinc for most everything. The natural zinc is almost identical to clear cad, and I'm told it is more durable. It can be passivated to give the familiar yellow finish, as well as a very attractive black that looks like black anodize.

Caswell plating has a good assortment of kits to enable do it yourself plating. I have bought the electroless nickel kit but have yet to use it. They also have a black oxide kit.

Try their website. Its very informative.

www.caswellplating.com

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:52 pm

I guess he meant "Clear Cad". I'd have to say that that looks the most correct of what I've seen.

What are you comparing it to when you say it looks the most correct? My brakes do not have a square millimeter of clean surface for me to judge the correct look. If I see something that looks nice at the platers, how can one know if it looks like my brakes looked in 1963?

xs10shl · Post by **xs10shl** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:58 pm

Sorry - rephrase from "looks correct" to "looks best", but may not be correct. I'm not really as concerned with originality.

I have a 365 GTC, and those look like they've been silver plated, and here's a link to what looks like a silver-plated caliper on a 275 GTB/4:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showth ... inc&page=3

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:06 pm

It sure looks nice when everything is clean and painted.

whturner · Post by **whturner** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:24 pm

Tom Wilson wrote:I figure I will keep increasing the pressure in 5 lb increments until something happens. Just wanted to make sure I knew what was supposed to happen

A grease gun works - but you can often use fluids other than grease. Kerosene, for example. Of course sometime you can't build up the pressure with a thinner fluid.
Works on old Fords also.

Cheers
Warren

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:54 pm

This afternoon I went to Karp's Power Brake Service and talked to Jeff, a guy who really likes brakes. The shop is small, but seems to know what they are talking about and didn't care if your Dunlops came from a Fiat, a Jaguar or a Ferrari.

He said Cadmium is the way his high end clients coat their brakes, but the Eastwood Cadmium colored paint was pretty good as well. It all depends on who you are going to show it to. If you are not going to show it to anybody, he recommends flat black paint. However, he said to decide now what you ultimately want. If you paint it, it will be very problematic to strip and Cad Plate it later.

Off the top of his head, the prices he quoted were:

Front Brake rebuilding and resleeving: $200.00 per wheel
Rear Brake rebuilding (including emergency brake) and resleeving: $220.00 per wheel
Rebuild booster: $285.00
Cad Plate all four sets of Brakes: $200-300.00 (hasn't done it in a while, so doesn't know the exact cost)
Cad Plate the Booster: : $285.00
Turn and Bead Blast the Rotors: $18.00 per wheel

They will test the balancing tubes and hard brake line off the caliper (don't know what they are called), replacing them with brake line tubing if necessary, but do not have stainless steel. They also will make flexible brake lines if needed.

Karp's seems like a good company that will treat me honestly, fairly and will educate me about my brakes. I don't know about their prices as it is my first quote, but for $200 I would definitely go for the Cadmium. I have to look at what I need to do to get the car running vrs. how difficult/expensive it will be to redo later, if I decide to go beyond a daily driver. $200 to save me from rebuilding these again and to look good through my Borrani's seems like wise investment. Besides, it is one of tne of the cheaper things on a Ferrari...

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:00 pm

Tom Y - I noticed that your diary showed that you Cad Plated the bolts on your brakes. However, the bolts on my brakes appear to be Black Oxide. Any thoughts on this?

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:33 am

Ka-Pow!!!! It sounded like the Fourth of July today as I blew my brake pistons about 10 feet across the lawn this afternoon. The solution was to first squish them in the vice, so as to get the piston moving. I then drilled a hole in a board and held the piston against the board, with the bleed nipple in the hole (to get a good grip on the thing) and pointed it away from anything important. 120 lbs. of air went into the other hole and I had my own little cannon.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

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There was not much brake fluid left, after sitting for almost 15 years and what was left looked like mud. After cleaning it a bit, it appeared that Tom Y was right and rust had formed inside the piston hole. Is this the part that gets replaced during a resleeving? If so, it needs it.

The next task was to remove the rest of the rear bearing assembly, which took a fair amount of time and lots of penetrating oil. Looking at the rubber seal that I am supposed to replace, I am not sure how to get it out. IIt looks like the metal sleeve should pull out, which would release the rubber ring. However, I do not want to pull too hard until I know that this is correct and that it does not unscrew or something. Advice would be appreciated.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

Post by **tyang** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:35 am

Hi Tom,

Next time wrap the assembly in a sturdy towel to catch the flying projectile!!! That's why it's so dangerous. Maybe I should start posting a disclaimer on this website for people who want to make cannons!

In answer to you previous query, I had all my bolts on the caliper assembly plated white cad/nickel, but I've also seen black oxide on these bolts. Don'f forget start washers behind the bolts for the caliper piston assemblies.

The seal for the rear hub should knock out in the direction of the center diff when it's mounted on the car. The way you have it pictured sitting on the table is the way you should tap the seal out. Don't mess with that metal lip. Get a steel drift or punch and start tapping the rubber part of the seal. Try to catch some of the metal edge that is covered by the rubber. Tap (maybe harder) evenly around the seal, and it should start moving. Make a note of the orientation of the lip before you take it out to put the new one in the same direction. Get this wrong, and you'll have a leaky seal.

Congratulations, you're making progress. Just BE CAREFUL!!! It scares me to think if someone was in the yard when you were getting that piston out.

Tom

Tom Wilson · Post by **Tom Wilson** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:06 am

I had a towel around the first one (and no one around), but while trying to manipulate the caliper, the hose and the towel, it slipped. It was tied more securely the next time!