Correct Marchals for 250 GTE/330 America

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330 America
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Correct Marchals for 250 GTE/330 America

Post by 330 America » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:29 pm

Does anyone know the correct model number Marchal fog lamps (eg. 670 680) and headlights for the Series III 250GTE and the 330 America?
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold

kare
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Post by kare » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:47 am

I recently bought a NOS pair of Marchal Equilux 157073; unfortunately they still have have control stickers on glasses, so I will never have heart to start using them...). These have 4 flat fixing points, one in 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 2 o'clock and 6 o'clock.

See:

http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/osia/equilux.jpg

The fixing point at 6 o'clock can be either flat (like the others) or hooked (like in my picture), makes no difference. It is more important that there is no provision for parking light (several variations with different parking light set-ups exist). As far as I know, the correct one for Ferrari should not have a shade in front of bulb either.

It may be harder to find the bottoms (installed in car body) if they are gone...

My car still has what I believe to be original fog lights. The lenses are marked 670-680-690, which I believe to be different type of housings using the same lense. 670 is correct for Ferrari, but most will be offered for sale as "670-680-690" (sic!). 680 is the same light with proud "eye brow" bezels (I think). Have no idea what 690 was.

My fogs have a paint stamp "670-300" inside housing. One of them also has a date stamp "26 juil 1961" which matches the time of construction of my car (started in 11/61, completed 02/62). Inside reflectors there are stickers saying "CODIF 636 10403 - ancienne ref. 8495". AFAIK "ancienne ref." means "earlier reference" - the old model number for the same type of light. There is a peculiarly shaped reflector inside (which makes it a fog light).

The lights are installed with four beveled washers (2 for each light), which are often gone. They make it easier to fix the light properly on correct position. If you can't find them, it will be pretty easy to make a set. In Finland carpenters say: "Nothing is as easy as making a misaligned cut".

Reflector:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/osia/img_4077.jpg

Sticker:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/osia/img_4078.jpg

Paint stamps:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/osia/img_4081.jpg

Beveled washer:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/osia/img_4082.jpg

All my lights have been converted to use H1 bulbs. I would very much like to know what kind of bulbs and holders are correct for these lights. I am perfectly happy with the H1 conversion, but would of course want to have correct parts on my shelf. Goes with the disease.

More than you wanted to know, maybe...

Best wishes, Kare
250 GT 2+2 3197/GT

kare
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Post by kare » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:50 am

Should also point out that my cars is a S.2, so some things may be different on S.3.

I too would like to know what kind of fogs were used on S.3 and how they are fixed. How about the headlight bezel? Is it pressed into the flaps in light bottom or did they use some other way to fix it?

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:57 am

Steve,

What are you missing? The whole assembly or just the lense?

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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330 America
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Post by 330 America » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:48 am

I was missing the correct trim rings and glass lenses for both the headlights and driving (fog) lamps. The car had Cibie glass/bulbs and incorrect chrome trim rings when I bought it.

I paid some pretty big dollars 3 years ago for what I'm told are the correct NOS Marchal headlight trim rings (still wrapped in plastic), plus glass, plus bulbs (new in boxes) from Gunther Hansele. I also purchased what I'm told are the correct foglamps (stamped 670 680 on the glass) with some decent condition chrome trim rings that need polishing from Fred Petroske ("Mostly British" in NY). The paint shop is working to fit the rear lights to the car today and they want the front lights to ensure everything fits from a bodywork standpoint before they prime/paint the car this month. Symbolic Motorcars has had my car since last Summer and has done an immense amount of finishing metal work along window edges, fender arches (rust & brass filler issues), etc.

When I unboxed my foglamps last night to ready them for shipment to California today I noticed that one of them has a yellowish tint and when I turned them over it appears the coating on the back of the glass housing is different from the other one and perhaps the silvering (inside) is a different shade -- thus, they don't match. I've emailed Fred about swapping one out and I've located two sets on eBay (I'm bidding on one, and watching the other). I don't want to buy another pair of 670/680's if they are not correct for my car.

I'd like to also verify the headlight glass #'s with someone who knows for sure before I unwrap (thus, cannot return) them.

Thanks guys
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:57 pm

Steve,

I believe the foglight glass is correct. There were two types of bezels availible, I believe the one with the 'eyebrow' on top is correct. I have extras if you need these or the guts of the lamps but if you can get good ones on ebay at a reasonable price, definately go that route.

Personally, I do not know what is correct for the headlights however, I prefer the period aftermarket option of Marchal Amplilux - much more light availible if you need to travel after dark.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:01 pm

Scratch the 'eyebrow' foglight bezels; I looked at the pictures of Tom's car. Those bezels appear to be the ones with the little shield on top.

Tom can you confirm this?

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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330 America
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Post by 330 America » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:05 pm

Art - can you send me pictures of the correct foglamp chrome trim ring directly to spatti@willow-investments.com?

Please also confirm what kind of bucket (if any) and mountain hardware is supposed to be correct (if you know the answer). Remember, my car had a Series II front clip and so I have no examples of correct front lights/trim rings/etc. You would be amazed how nicely the Series III clip went on. The car looks great.

I've seen 670/680 foglamps with a complete chrome "cup shaped" bucket that goes behind the glass lense (encasing the glass) and included a threaded extension shaft extending out of the bottom (like a rally light). There is an example on eBay. I've also seen 670/680 foglamps with just the outer trim ring and an open/exposed backing for the glass lense assembly to sit against the recessed mounting points in the front grill. This latter type is what Fred Petroske sold me and I have no idea which is correct. I'm trying to figure out if I need to buy the entire encased chrome housing version on eBay, or use the open-back mounting rings like I already have.

Also, was the glass amber tint or clear for the '63 cars?

Thanks in advance for your immense help :)
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold

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330 America
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Post by 330 America » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:06 pm

Err....that was "mounting" hardware :)
Steve Patti
1969 911E
1976 Carrera 3.0
Ferrari 330 America (5061) - sold
OSCA 1600 Zagato (006) - sold

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:01 pm

Steve,

The Series 3 has rear mount foglights. I don't think I have any but it sounds like Fred already sent you these. You will also need relector, bulb mount and the spring clips, these should be the same as the bottom mount units.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

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Yale
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Post by Yale » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:08 pm

Amber tinted glass is for cars delivered to France and Monaco. Yale
1964 330GT #6097

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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:17 pm

Steve – Today I had a chance to dig up the fog lights and headlight (yes, singular. It is a sad story…) on my Series III to see if I can get the info you need. Now that I am back in my easy-chair, I realize there were a lot of questions asked that I did not look into, but I will give you what I got and will be happy to find the answer to any other questions you have. However, before we begin, let me tell you how hard it is to photograph headlights! Either you get great reflection from the glass which obscures the images formed into them or the glass turns transparent and you can’t see anything. I took over 20 photos of the fog light and in not one of them can you see the 690 & 680 printed at the top. Oh well, lets begin…

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

Click on the photo if you want a larger version.

The fog light lens has the number 690 printed on the upper left and 680 on the upper right. On the bottom, are printed the words “Marchal”, “Made in France” and “IGM 1640PN”. I do not think it has eyebrows, though Art can correct me if I am wrong.

The fog light rim says Marchal on the top of the inside. The bucket has the numbers 690 & 1971 stamped on the inside. The bucket also has a wire riveted on the inside and cut just below the attachment. I think this is a ground that came with the bucket that Ferrari did not want to use.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>
<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... _Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

The head light lens has the words “Marchal E2 109” on the right (with a logo and a number), “Equilux CE” on the left and “A 1412” & “Made in France” at the bottom.

The head light ring does not have any numbers on it, but if you assume the only tab is at 12:00, then the screw hole would be at 5:30. The bucket has “N2” stamped on its outer ring.

Tom S. says he has lots of headlight lenses (and one would assume, buckets, reflectors and the like) sitting around, but will not sell me one. If you contact him, please tell him you have the 3 headlight prototype GTE and if he falls for it, I will take the extra lens off your hands.

Again, I would be very happy to get or photograph additional information if it will help.
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
250 GTE Register
http://www.250GTE.com

kare
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Post by kare » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:52 pm

How does that fog light fix into the car?

What does the headlight rim look like?

Best wishes, Kare

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Tom Wilson
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Post by Tom Wilson » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:37 pm

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

Ok Kare, what we are looking at here is the bucket, with the chrome surround and the mounting hardware. The chrome ring (which has no markings) sets into the body, with no attachments. The gray bucket (which has the markings “690”, “1971” and “N2” inside) is slightly larger than the chrome ring, so holds it in place. The bucket is then held in place by the hollow bolt, which sandwiches the bucket between the black plate, the body and an aluminum dish that goes behind it all. The order is bolt head, black plate, gray bucket, body, aluminum dish, nut. There are no markings on the black and aluminum dishes. The reflector, lens and chrome surround shown earlier then go in the bucket and are held in place with wire clips.

By the way, I earlier stated that the chrome surround has the word Marchal stamped on the inside. It is actually stamped on the outside, on the top. At the bottom is the vertical adjustment screw.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

The chrome head light ring is plain, with only a tab at the top and a screw hole at the bottom. If you look at the body photo below, you will see a flange-thing at the top that the tab hooks through and another at the bottom to receive the screw. The rubber seal shown in the photo actually goes between the ring and the body.

<a href="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Large.jpg" class="postlink"><img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290 ... -Small.jpg" border="6"></a>

The head light does not have its own bucket, but uses the one built into the body. Attached to the edge of the glass reflector are three adjustment screws and a metal hook. The hook goes through the wire clip at the bottom of the black portion of the body bucket. The top adjustment screw slips under the wire clip at the top of the body bucket. The other two screws do not attach, but push against the body to allow you to aim the light right and left.
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
250 GTE Register
http://www.250GTE.com

kare
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Post by kare » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:29 am

To be exact that headlight bucket is also a Marchal part.

http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/kuvaa/img_0092.jpg

It is also interesting that yours seem to be installed on the outside and mine inside the body flanges...

http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/kuvaa/img_0866.jpg
250 GT 2+2 3197/GT

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