ZDDP and newer oils...

[DinoSteven]

There is some recent concern with the newer motor oils, namely any oil with designation post-SF, as they lack ZDDP, a lubricant additive that resists flat-tappet wear.

All of our older cars are flat-tappet design - that is, those with cam-to-bucket direct contact without a roller mechanism.

Comments?

Steven

[tyang]

Hi Steven,

There was a little of this discussion at one of the tech sessions during last week's party.

As far as Ferraris are concerned, the Columbo V-12s have roller followers so don't have the contact points that are the worry. The Four cam engines on the other hand have these buckets you described.

I spoke with Russ the Engine Head specialist and he brought with him some mysterious lifter failures that could be attributed to the lack of zinc in the oil. His opinion is using an oil that still uses Zinc in its formula would not be a bad idea, but we're still looking for more data. It's something to be aware of, and to look out for excessive wear.

When I rebuilt my Ford 289 V-8 I was specifically warned by my machine shop to use a Shell Rotella T for the break in of the engine, but after the first couple of oil changes, it was safe to use regular oil.

I took a close look at the lifter failures that was brought to the seminar and noticed they were all modern lifters, pretty small in diameter, with a small contact patch to the cam lobe. In my opinion, Modern engineering designs these components with specific durability parameters. Change one factor, like the formulation of the oil, and that changes how long the lifter will last. I believe the older engines were over engineered with a lot more room for durability, and may survive better than modern components when it comes to an oil formulation change. Until I see Ferrari specific failures in the buckets will I start to worry. Besides, I heard a rumor, Mobile One does not have zinc in their formulations, and people have been using that stuff for years. I think we need to wait for more data.

Remember the leaded gas scare of the 80s and 90s and how it was going to ruin all our valve seats? Some hard driven cast iron heads failed, but most of us were unaffected.

Just my 2 cents.
Tom

[8339]

Hi Tom and Steven,

Tom and I had this discussion at our get together last week. I absolutely agree with Tom that older engine technology was over engineered. I used to be "factory" Technical Troubleshooter for Toyota and watched their products go from being able to run with almost no oil and coolant to overheating if just one radiator tube was clogged. As soon as the cost accountants got involved it was all over. That doesn't mean by the way that Toyota makes a bad product.

If you're using a quality oil, the valve lash is correct, the lobe profile doesn't have excessive wear, your chances of having any problems are slim. I personally have never been a fan of additives, that may change but not until I do some more research. Google synthetic oils and you'll find out not all synthetic oils are the same either. I do use standard petroleum oils for break ins on fresh engines.

[tim]

Greetings... This is a subject that has been much discussed amonst the britcar folks. ZDDP was in the oils we used till recently and has been removed so as not to damage catalysts. Few oils now contain the ZDDP levels thought needed to prevent damage, that being 1200ppm. Diesel rated oils still had the higher level hence the recommendation of Rotella but even those are being reformulated. Getting ZDDP levels from oil companies has proven futile. There are additives that will produce sufficient levels in "modern" oils. The ZDDP is really only need for break in and maybe the first change or so. Using a top synthetic doesn't get round the problem although I am told Mobil 1 15-50 has sufficient levels as do RedLine motor oils although synthetics generally aren't recommeded for break in. Most cam manufacturers now offer a break in lube with ZDDP. Tim