The final piece of my fuel system rebuild is my tank. I was told by the PO that in the late 80's, it sprung a leak and was repaired by fiberglass encapsulation (inside and out).
So here is my concern: being a boater, I am well aware of ongoing problems with ethanol and fiberglass fuel tanks. For those unaware, the ethanol interacts with most polyester resins and degrades the resin. Beyond springing new leaks, the fuel also carries some of the disolved resin in suspension wreaking havoc on fuel systems (especially fuel injection)
As far as I know, my tank has never had any ethanol based fuel in it and it doesn't leak now. It doesn't look great with the fiberglass skin but it doesn't look bad either. I'm trying to decide if I should just clean it and apply a sealer/coating on the inside that is ethanol safe or, if I should just bite the bullet and have one refabricated?
I know Tom recently had one built for a 330 and it looked great. I'd love a rough idea on the cost or any other opinions.
thanks.
Gas tank- Lusso
Gas tank- Lusso
John Viveiros
1964 250 GTL
1964 250 GTL
I'm sorry to hear about your tank. They did something that is now irreversible. Making a new tank is really up to you. It's an added expense that I'm sure you don't want to voluntarily add to your restorations costs!
The one we had fabricated for the Cal Spyder was not done to concours levels. The original tanks have leaded seams, crimped edges, and riveted baffles. This Cal Spyder may never see a upper level concours, so these details were not as important as getting a reasonable facsimile of the original tank that worked better than the leaky, rusty mess of the old tank. (Besides, I wonder how many judges these days can even spot the differences!) What we got was a very nice job for about $3K. I felt that was a very reasonable price considering I've heard people paying over 3x that amount or more for an exact copy.
Tom
The one we had fabricated for the Cal Spyder was not done to concours levels. The original tanks have leaded seams, crimped edges, and riveted baffles. This Cal Spyder may never see a upper level concours, so these details were not as important as getting a reasonable facsimile of the original tank that worked better than the leaky, rusty mess of the old tank. (Besides, I wonder how many judges these days can even spot the differences!) What we got was a very nice job for about $3K. I felt that was a very reasonable price considering I've heard people paying over 3x that amount or more for an exact copy.
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
I was afraid of that.
I've been reading much of the afternoon and it does't look good for any fiberglass sealers that are ethanol safe.
I'd be fine with a non-concourse reproduction tank but wouldn't they need the original to copy? With the fiberglass encapsulation, I think a reasonable facsimile of some details may be difficult. Do any of these tank guys have patterns or anything that might help in reproduction?
I've been reading much of the afternoon and it does't look good for any fiberglass sealers that are ethanol safe.
I'd be fine with a non-concourse reproduction tank but wouldn't they need the original to copy? With the fiberglass encapsulation, I think a reasonable facsimile of some details may be difficult. Do any of these tank guys have patterns or anything that might help in reproduction?
John Viveiros
1964 250 GTL
1964 250 GTL
Hi John,
Sorry to get a laugh at your expense, but I chuckle whenever you ask a question like that! Ferrari made about 350 Lussos, and no extra parts. How often do you think at any given time a Lusso owner needs a gastank, and a fabricator feels he'll corner the market on Lusso gastanks by making a pattern waiting for the next time the need arises?
Sorry, John, welcome to the wonderful world of low production hand made cars, built by low cost fabricators in the 60s. Replicating their work today at $75+/hr is never cheap or easy!
I shipped the old tank half way across the country ($250 bucks!) to our fabricator after cutting it open and eliminating all the fuel residue.
Good luck!
Tom
Sorry to get a laugh at your expense, but I chuckle whenever you ask a question like that! Ferrari made about 350 Lussos, and no extra parts. How often do you think at any given time a Lusso owner needs a gastank, and a fabricator feels he'll corner the market on Lusso gastanks by making a pattern waiting for the next time the need arises?
Sorry, John, welcome to the wonderful world of low production hand made cars, built by low cost fabricators in the 60s. Replicating their work today at $75+/hr is never cheap or easy!
I shipped the old tank half way across the country ($250 bucks!) to our fabricator after cutting it open and eliminating all the fuel residue.
Good luck!
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Hi John,
Thanks for humoring me. Just like British car owners must be able to laugh at Lucas Electrics, Ferrari owners must be able to laugh at the expense of things. That doesn't necessarily mean I foolishly spend money on these cars, but the nature of them is that rarely is it cheap! If you're into boats, you'll understand.
Believe me, your learning process is benefiting many people out there who are less brave in asking questions like yours.
Tom
Thanks for humoring me. Just like British car owners must be able to laugh at Lucas Electrics, Ferrari owners must be able to laugh at the expense of things. That doesn't necessarily mean I foolishly spend money on these cars, but the nature of them is that rarely is it cheap! If you're into boats, you'll understand.
Believe me, your learning process is benefiting many people out there who are less brave in asking questions like yours.
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
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John Vardanian
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Hi John,
I can take some measurement and more detailed photos for you. I had mine bead blasted recently and pressure tested. It is now painted but that should get in the way of measurements. I chose not to follow originality here because the original calls for a tar like material to be sprayed over the black paint.
As Tom said, the tank was riveted and the rivets filled with solder, but it also appears that the whole tank was dunked in a bath of molten solder for good measure.
john
I can take some measurement and more detailed photos for you. I had mine bead blasted recently and pressure tested. It is now painted but that should get in the way of measurements. I chose not to follow originality here because the original calls for a tar like material to be sprayed over the black paint.
As Tom said, the tank was riveted and the rivets filled with solder, but it also appears that the whole tank was dunked in a bath of molten solder for good measure.
john
PF Coupe
John,
thats a huge help! I can use mine for measurements but what I can't see are the details like the strengthening ribs in the ends and the flange details.
I think my first go at this is to see if I can peel back the encapsulation on the outside. Then perhaps see if I can get a peak inside from the fill and sending unit holes to see just what was done to the inside. If there's anyway I can save it, I'd like to.
Worst case, it doesn't look to complex to remake.
thats a huge help! I can use mine for measurements but what I can't see are the details like the strengthening ribs in the ends and the flange details.
I think my first go at this is to see if I can peel back the encapsulation on the outside. Then perhaps see if I can get a peak inside from the fill and sending unit holes to see just what was done to the inside. If there's anyway I can save it, I'd like to.
Worst case, it doesn't look to complex to remake.
John Viveiros
1964 250 GTL
1964 250 GTL
Hi John,
Pickup tube comes out and filler neck gets unclamped. Once the cotter pins on the mounting nuts are out, you may have very little access to hold the top of the bolt heads so you can unscrew the castle nuts. I made a special tool to set on top of the bolt:
Here's the post on my gastank coming out:
http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari6.htm
Mine is tall, so it requires the car to be very high up in the air to get it out from under the car, but it Lusso tanks are flat so it shouldn't be too hard.
There are some flat washers that insulate the tank from the body that I'm sure are gone. I turn polyurethane or teflon replacements on a lathe to replace the original rubber isolators.
Pickup tube comes out and filler neck gets unclamped. Once the cotter pins on the mounting nuts are out, you may have very little access to hold the top of the bolt heads so you can unscrew the castle nuts. I made a special tool to set on top of the bolt:
Here's the post on my gastank coming out:
http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari6.htm
Mine is tall, so it requires the car to be very high up in the air to get it out from under the car, but it Lusso tanks are flat so it shouldn't be too hard.
There are some flat washers that insulate the tank from the body that I'm sure are gone. I turn polyurethane or teflon replacements on a lathe to replace the original rubber isolators.
'63 330 America #5053
Yep, wires too.JAV wrote:Tom,
thank you. I presume the sending unit wires get undone as the tank is dropped?
See- my dumb questions have gotten some great responses and I feel better about tackeling this. I think I've said it before but I am so thankful for this site. Great job Tom.
The guys on this site are VERY knowledgeable, and I'm very lucky as well to have the resource!
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
I found that a crow foot wrench with an extension worked to hold the bolt heads on a 330 GT. Also, protect the drain bolt (I used a piece of wood with a hole drilled in it) so you don't stress the bottom of the tank.JAV wrote:one more question- any tips on removal?
A hydraulic garage jack is useful to support the tank and carefully lower it. It may have to be tipped to clear the chassis (on a 330 GT anyway).
As mentioned, the rear of the car needs to be quite a ways in the air. Most Ferrari tanks have to drop straight down and clear the bottom of the car before they can be extracted.
Don't know about a Lusso, but the 330 and coupe have an access plate in the trunk where you can disconnect the wires (mark them) before dropping the tank. There is probably a plate under the rear package shelf that allows removal of the sending unit w/o dropping the tank. That would also provide access to the wires.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
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John Vardanian
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Hi John,
As you can see the tank is a simple suitcase. It is held in place by four sets of 14mm head nut/bolts. There is no obstruction at all. In worst case, your nut/bolts are frozen and you end up snapping them in half--- no great loss. Use a large piece of flat wood on a jack and ease it down once you unanchor it from the chassis.
john
As you can see the tank is a simple suitcase. It is held in place by four sets of 14mm head nut/bolts. There is no obstruction at all. In worst case, your nut/bolts are frozen and you end up snapping them in half--- no great loss. Use a large piece of flat wood on a jack and ease it down once you unanchor it from the chassis.
john
PF Coupe