Common Oil Leaks?

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

User avatar
JAV
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Massachusetts

Common Oil Leaks?

Post by JAV »

I've been spending a lot of time under the car and have noticed a few oil leaks (or weaping).

With the brakes , fuel tank and shocks redone, but still off the car, the differential is looking oily, and out of place... as are most things next to the restored bits. A problem I'm sure we've all struggled with at some point. I presume the pinion seal is the common culprit (and have a new one) but how common are leaks in other places like the axel connection points? I was hoping not to drop the whole diff but with almost everything else off, I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet now? Could someone with more experience comment on the success rate of replacing just the pinion seal - versus the full monty?

The transmission bell housing screen. I get drips here after just days. Is it more common that this an engine or tranny seal issue?

Various spots on the bottom of the engine. Oil pan has been done but I see drops on things like the fuel pump mounting flange and Giro cable. Is there any list of common trouble spots to address on the columbo engine?

Lastly- I've read that disuse can create leaks even when seals are fine. How realistic is it that some of these leaks will resolve themselves once the car see's normal use? My luck and past experience suggest "not very likely" but I've now read this in a few places.


Thanks
John Viveiros
1964 250 GTL
User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1586
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by 330GT »

JAV wrote:The transmission bell housing screen. I get drips here after just days. Is it more common that this an engine or tranny seal issue?
Usually the rear main seal on the engine.
JAV wrote:Various spots on the bottom of the engine. Oil pan has been done but I see drops on things like the fuel pump mounting flange and Giro cable.
Fuel pump is probably the O-ring around the pump rod. There is a O-ring in the right angle drive for the tach.

I think that trying to fix all of the oil leaks in an old Ferrari is an excercise in futility. I ignore the little ones and just fix ones that really annoy me.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by 250GT »

An running Ferrari always has some leaks !,
I suspect that the winning concours cars arent filled up with oil,
even an frehsed overhauld motor by me leaks after 2000 km .
and I try to do it with high accurance believe me
so live with it !
or goes to concours but than you must push

ciao
Cornelis
xs10shl
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 6:27 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by xs10shl »

Just as a reference point, I have yet to own a Ferrari that does not leak. My lusso leaked a little under the transmission and rear diff. A drip here and there is unavoidable, IMHO. However, If we're taking about several ounces of fluid a week leaking out - ok, then something is probably wrong. Otherwise, it may be a better investment to epoxy your garage floor to make cleanup a breeze.

For me, a problem worse than leaking is stuff drying out. If I leave a car for more than a month or two without starting it up, I seem to find myself needing to patch something which now leaks like crazy when the car is running.
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3901
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by tyang »

Ferraris do all leak, but some worse than others. You just need to decide how bad it has to get for you to do something about it. I just pulled the rear diff on David's PF coupe to fix a leak that was worse than normal. A small drip from a diff isn't something to worry about, but this one was leaking from the axle tube flange and was enough to warrant the repair. While the diff was out, we decided to replace some of the spring bushings. Now the rear differential is as good as new. You'll need a special fixture to remove the springs, so it's not an easy job. I'll be posting pictures in the next couple of days.

The pinion seal requires the drive shaft to come out. It's not just as simple as taking u-joints apart, as cotter pins, and a rubber doughnut has to unbolted, along with the u-joint. Once you expose the pinion nut and you remove the cotter pin, an impact gun will get the nut off.

If the seals have never been replaced, no amount of driving will stop the leaks. The rubber lips on the seals turn rock hard. The fiber seals will sometimes swell up with use, but the rubber ones only seem to get worse.

Good luck, and be careful, or else you might find yourself tearing the whole car apart!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
User avatar
gsjohnson
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:27 am
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by gsjohnson »

I have a few oil leaks as well. I've been cleaning them off and watching how bad they leak, as well as logging exactly where they are coming from. My worst one is from the mechanical fuel pump, which I will probably get into next. It is really something that I will plot along with and attack as they get worse, if at all. And my engine was rebuilt 8000 miles ago.
GS
1965 330 GT 2+2 Interim
S/N 6997
whturner
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:48 am
Location: Western PA
Contact:

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by whturner »

Some differentials "weep" but never drip, so that there is a film of oil, but not a leak. It often comes from the bolts whose threads were not sealed. I swear that gear oil creeps better than some penetrating oil.

Cheers
Warren
330 GT Series II sn 10069
John Vardanian
Posts: 1806
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by John Vardanian »

JAV,

What is dreadful about oil leaks is not so much the mess they make on the garage floor, but it’s the disgusting slime they leave on the underbelly when the car moves at speed. I hate leaks and chasing them down has become an obsession.

Now that I got that off my chest… seriously, I have one small leak remaining and it’s from where the sump meets the block. I have asked and asked, but no one can tell me if the sump can be removed with the engine in the car. So, for now, after each drive I crawl under and wipe the seepage.

john
PF Coupe
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by 250GT »

Hi John, I have THE absolut solution for you, its called LECWEC.
witch means no dripping engines and gearboxes any more. fantastic.
Its an additiv witch PRETANDS that its conditioned al you gasket sand sealants.
i never tried it ,.but sounds great!!!
they leaking oil prevent underbody rost.
I think you can take off the oilpan with motor in place when you´re a handy man.
in a 128D chassis it can be difficult, the front of the chassis is more narrow, no Fispa fuelpunp on the lower left front.

Ciao
Cornelis
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3901
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by tyang »

John Vardanian wrote:JAV,

What is dreadful about oil leaks is not so much the mess they make on the garage floor, but it’s the disgusting slime they leave on the underbelly when the car moves at speed. I hate leaks and chasing them down has become an obsession.

Now that I got that off my chest… seriously, I have one small leak remaining and it’s from where the sump meets the block. I have asked and asked, but no one can tell me if the sump can be removed with the engine in the car. So, for now, after each drive I crawl under and wipe the seepage.

john
Hi John,

Obviously the bottom plate to the oil pan can be removed, but I don't believe the rest of the oil pan can be removed from the rest of the engine. The cross member gets in the way.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
User avatar
JAV
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by JAV »

Thanks for the responses guys. I think I'm going to leave the diff in place and just replace the pinion seal since I already have it-then I'll just watch things. I'll be watching for your spring removal post Tom, I'd like to see whats involved with removing the diff. I didn't buy the axel outer seals because they didn't seem to be leaking. I'm wondering if that was a mistake and if it's worth doing while the brakes are off?

I had already planned to do the mech fuel pump O ring after having read about that on here. The only other one that is really bothering me are the drips on the bell housing screen. I think that one is going to require pulling the tranny... but it will bother me if I don't at least attempt to clean that one up since it actually drips a couple of drops per month.

Like the other John V, I too find leaks to be a pet peive and it's always in the back of my mind that I'm failing to address something that shouldn't be. John, I don't know on your sump removal question... I know I pulled the cover without issue, but I didn't look to see how bad it would be to pull the whole sump. I seem to recall a decent amount of clearance around the cover but I don't know if the irregular shape of the sump would make removal inpossible.
John Viveiros
1964 250 GTL
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by 250GT »

Hello Tom, there is NO crossbar under the motor I know /speaking of 128D and 128F Chassis
i can not talk for newer cars but your 250gt mustbe the same 128E
the motor has only 4 fixation points my 4-speed gearbox rest on a crossbar on the back
to take out you must ofcourse REMOVE the threaths of the chain houses- John is not an beginner as i could read-
thats wat i mean by handyman.
and take out the lower half of the gearbox fixation than it mist be possible.
i appriciate your articles very much Tom, dont wants to be a better knower
its a pity that ican post fotos to explain. no native languege

only a hobby here
ciao
Cornelis
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3901
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by tyang »

Hi Cornelis,

I don't have my car with me, so I can't check, but I seem to remember the front cross member keeping the oil pan from dropping straight down past the studs. I'm not talking about the flat pan section, but the one attached to the block.

If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time, so I don't mind the discussion!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by 250GT »

Hi Tom ,
We all hope you can find your new project car SOON.
one to drive, the other to stay fresh in mind,
working on the cars makes ME often (almost)more satisfied as driving
thats why you need two

all the best.
C.
John Vardanian
Posts: 1806
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Common Oil Leaks?

Post by John Vardanian »

tyang wrote:
Hi John,

Obviously the bottom plate to the oil pan can be removed, but I don't believe the rest of the oil pan can be removed from the rest of the engine. The cross member gets in the way.

Tom
Hi Tom,

I wonder if you would ask Sicard about removal of the sump in the PF coupe since you have one in the shop. The front cross member seems to be in the clear with the 128D. If I can get this one little leak I'll have beat the myth. Thanks for any help.

john
PF Coupe
Post Reply