Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

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rshim1
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Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by rshim1 »

Hi Tom, Your description of the PF Coupe and rear axle installation and springs reminded me of how some of my Calculus professors would solve a problem in class. They would get half way through the solution and jump to the answer leaving the students scratching their heads while he stood there smiling. It would have been very helpful if you had showed how the rear springs were installed to get the shackles to hang in the proper attitude. With the amount of force stored in those springs this can not be a simple job (grin). So can you you please rewind the tape and show how the springs are installed without bugger anything up. In regard to setting the axle on the spring pads did it require two people to get in place? Was there any problems in hooking up the trailing arms? I'm curious to hear your response as I will be installing the rear axle and springs in my cab in a couple of months.

In regard the the phillips vs. slotted head screws on the hood latch cover I believe that the GTE most likely had phillips head screws in that location. I say this because my cab used phillips head screws to attach the hood latch and cover. My cab is serial # 3783 a late October '62 build. I have photos of other cabs that show phillips head used there. Did you you check your 330? In looking at a lot of vintage Ferraris over the years I am convinced that PF made the change from slotted head to phillips head screws around 1960. The exact time and serial number number of the change is unknow to me. I would like to hear what others have to say on this.
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tyang
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by tyang »

I often wonder how many people really want all the gory details, especially when you count how many people in the world would tackle a job like this themselves. Unfortunately when I'm knee deep in working on a car, it makes it very difficult to take pictures, but I'll try to clarify.

The procedure I followed went something like this.

1. attach the shackles to the springs, and compress the springs to flatten them out.
2. hang the spring assembly on the two bolts that are welded to the frame. How far you are from the spring will determine how far you need to flatten the spring.
3.Once you get the spring hung, loosen the compressor and install the other side.
4. with both springs in place, install the axle. You'll need two people. Loosely bolt the axle in place and get the trailing arms close. They might not line up because the springs still need to be flattened.
5. As you flatten one spring, get ready to pry the shackle in place. It can get a little dicey, but sometimes it might just take some brute force. It may also take jacking that side up with a floor jack to help compress the spring some more. Once things get lined up, attach the limit cable. This is key to keeping everything in place.
6. The same procedure goes for the other side. Each car is slightly different and some are harder to do than others. GOOD LUCK!

As far as the phillips heads are concerned, my car came largely disassembled, but I found these flat head screws in the coffee can that came with my car. I find more flat head screws on my car than phillips. I would love to hear from more people on this.

Tom
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T308
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Phillips Head Screws

Post by T308 »

I had asked Kare the same thing a few weeks back. My car was missing the small screws that hold the chrome rain gutter trim and the only screws of proper size "in the box" that I had were Phillips. My car's a hodgepodge of both. I know that Scaglietti had switched over by 1963-4 (by looking at original Lussos) but it seems to me that Pininfarina might have taken a little longer to move over completely. The hardware on outsourced items (lights etc.) seem to be nearly all Phillips, but I'm not sure on PF items. I'd be really curious to hear what other have to say.

1960-1963 owners, chime in!
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tyang
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Re: Phillips Head Screws

Post by tyang »

T308 wrote:I had asked Kare the same thing a few weeks back. My car was missing the small screws that hold the chrome rain gutter trim and the only screws of proper size "in the box" that I had were Phillips. My car's a hodgepodge of both. I know that Scaglietti had switched over by 1963-4 (by looking at original Lussos) but it seems to me that Pininfarina might have taken a little longer to move over completely. The hardware on outsourced items (lights etc.) seem to be nearly all Phillips, but I'm not sure on PF items. I'd be really curious to hear what other have to say.

1960-1963 owners, chime in!
It's was pretty hard to find those sheet metal screws that hold the stainless rain gutters on. I think they were really tiny oval head screws, but it would be interesting to find an original car to tell us if it was flat or phillips.

Tom
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rshim1
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by rshim1 »

Tom, Thanks for reponding to my querry on the rear suspension installation. A couple of points in your description I need clarification on. In step (1) are you compressing the spring to flatten it with the same beam tool that was used to remove it in your 11/07 post? In step (4) I take it that you are re-flattening the springs one at a time after the axle has been set in place? In step (5) you say "pry the shackle in place". Aren't the shackles set in place in step (2)? Please clarify. Thanks to you and Francios for sharing your experience.
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tyang
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by tyang »

Question 1. Yes, it's the same tool. You need to flatten the spring out just to get it to line up with the bolts on the frame. Dont forget to use the bottom plate of the spring plate to give the compressor a flat area to press on the spring.
Question 2. Yes, you do them one at a time to get them in loosely bolted in place, then you hang the rear axle in place with the compressor removed.
Question 3. When you hang the rear axle, the shackles will still be in the wrong position. When you mount the spring compressor to one of the leaf springs after loosely bolting the spring plates in place, the compressing of the spring will hopefully get the shackles close to the correct orientation. Jacking that side of the rear axle will also help to compress the springs further. This is where the prying comes in. Believe me, it's not an ideal way with safety in mind, but sometimes it takes a little persuasion to get things to go the way they should. With everything loosely bolted in place the spring compressor shouldn't let go. Once everything pops into place, attach you limiting straps.

Hope I made sense. It will help to have another set of brave hands and eyes to watch what's going on. Common sense will go a long way.

Tom
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Tom Wilson
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by Tom Wilson »

Ok, now you got me curious. I see no reason why nor evidence of my latch ever being removed, but the bolt/screw combination is screwey. Mostly, it is held together with slotted screws (properly painted and relatively unmolested), but the upper right and upper left is using 8 mm Lobo Bolts.
Hood_Latch_Small.JPG
Hood_Latch_Small.JPG (53.38 KiB) Viewed 10176 times
Hood_Latch_Bolts_Small.jpg
Hood_Latch_Bolts_Small.jpg (71.19 KiB) Viewed 10175 times
Hood_Latch_Bolt_Small.jpg
Hood_Latch_Bolt_Small.jpg (41.23 KiB) Viewed 10172 times
The bolts say either LOBO 86 OR LOBO B6, I am not sure which. The Lobos look original, but I cannot see why the other screws would have been substituted, especially as their V shaped heads did not fit the holes. Unless you guys tell me otherwise, I will start looking for some Lobo bolts.
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Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

My latch is original and never removed. All screws are phillips and have
45 year old patina.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
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tyang
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by tyang »

The bevel head flat screwdriver screws are correct for the hood latch (second picture). Don't loose those screws, as they're hard to find with the same thread diameter and large head. I think they're chromed.

Lobo bolts are original, but most of the ones I've seen simply lobo twice. I'll have to look closer at some bolts for the 86. I bet someone mixed up the bolts on the top of the hood latch mechanism IMHO.

And while you're detailing, the actual mechanism that catches the hood latch is chrome, and the aluminum plate behind it is natural. Both of yours are painted black. We just stripped the paint off of 3553s latch.

Tom
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Tom Wilson
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by Tom Wilson »

Tom - the photo below comes from the GTE Owners Manual and it looks like the catch and the plate behind it are black. What do you think?
GTE Engine Bay
GTE Engine Bay
GTE Engine Bay.jpg (93.07 KiB) Viewed 10151 times
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tyang
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by tyang »

Not to dispute a picture, but it could also be reflecting the black hood pad. Something to do with the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflectance...but I digress. Let's take another survey!

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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by Tom Wilson »

I agree... it's not the best picture, but it is the only one I could find from the 1960's. Most engine bay shots show from the rear towards the front. On with the survey!
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giovanni44
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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by giovanni44 »

With regard to phillips screws on the hood latch/ release, my 330 2+2 came with cheese head slotted screws. However if you remove same please note which screws came from which location as there is a difference which will prevent the latch from functioning properly.

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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by 8339 »

Here's my two cents on screw heads. Most of the Italian cars I've owned or repaired, up to approximately 1964 to 1965 used slotted screw heads. Somewhere around 64 or 65 Italian car manufactures appeared to have switched. My 61 Giulietta Sprint Speciale uses slotted screws everywhere. In fact when I restored the interior I had to find slotted screws for the door panels and other areas. Yet on the 66 330GT they are all phillips. By the way this is true for Lancia, Maserati and even Fiat of that era. The exact date for the chnage may be difficult to find.


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Re: Coupe Rear Suspension and Phillips Head Screws

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

The angle of the light in the photo is coming from behind the person tuning the carb as noted
on the fender well and brake booster unit. Dull black surfaces don't reflect much light at all.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1953 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
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