Horn Detailing

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PSk
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by PSk » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:04 am

Tom,

I'm just curious how the detailing of 3553 is happening. Do you contact the owner when you find something amiss and then discuss what you could do to fix it, and costs, etc.? Must be adding up now ...

Best
Pete

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330GT
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by 330GT » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:45 am

TOMKIZER wrote:Here are the horns on my Queen. The color was apparently original. Nothing else on the car had been stripped to the bare metal before painting, so I assume the horns were blue from the factory. When I stripped off the black overspray where things behind the grill had been repainted after a fender bender sometime before 1984, I found this color blue. I documented my restoration so if a judge complains, I can show him the photos. Note the different lengths to provide a nice harmony.
Tom Kizer
Not long after I bought my 330 in 1982, I bought a set of a then new Fiaam horns and compressor. They were painted blue. So 15-20 years after our cars were made, blue was the 'IN' color.
Regards, Kerry
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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:00 am

PSk wrote:Tom,

I'm just curious how the detailing of 3553 is happening. Do you contact the owner when you find something amiss and then discuss what you could do to fix it, and costs, etc.? Must be adding up now ...

Best
Pete
Hi Pete,

Yes, I'm in constant contact with the owner. E-mail and digital pictures are great tools in expressing the problems, so Gary can approve the detailing. Francois and I try to be pragmatic about the car, and sometimes see no reason to re-do certain things and give our advice, but the owner has final approval. As we near the Cavallino event, I'm getting apprehensive and excited about Florida. There are no promises for an award, only the promise that we will do the best we can!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

PSk
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by PSk » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:42 pm

tyang wrote:
PSk wrote:Tom,

I'm just curious how the detailing of 3553 is happening. Do you contact the owner when you find something amiss and then discuss what you could do to fix it, and costs, etc.? Must be adding up now ...

Best
Pete
Hi Pete,

Yes, I'm in constant contact with the owner. E-mail and digital pictures are great tools in expressing the problems, so Gary can approve the detailing. Francois and I try to be pragmatic about the car, and sometimes see no reason to re-do certain things and give our advice, but the owner has final approval. As we near the Cavallino event, I'm getting apprehensive and excited about Florida. There are no promises for an award, only the promise that we will do the best we can!

Tom
Yes ofcourse. And I've noticed that Francois is pragmatic about these cars, must be good for the owners to have a repairer that still thinks of these old cars as simply cars :).

Good luck for the Cavallino event, I think this car will do well.
Pete

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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:58 pm

Yes ofcourse. And I've noticed that Francois is pragmatic about these cars, must be good for the owners to have a repairer that still thinks of these old cars as simply cars :).

Good luck for the Cavallino event, I think this car will do well.
Pete
Thanks Pete. I hope to do Francois proud, but who knows what will happen. Judging is so subjective. Wish me luck.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:57 pm

O.K., here's what I've found out on the horns. After close inspection of the horn trumpets, I found traces of the scarlet red paint down inside and on the threads of the horns, so I'm pretty sure these horns were not gray.

As far as the compressor is concerned, all the hammertone paint on everything makes me suspicious. Everything except the bakalite base is painted hammertone, even the screws and mounting bracket. I'm going to detail it to black wrinkle since that it the normal detailing, and go with that. If the horns turned out originally gray, I would have considered a gray compressor, but not now.

Thanks everyone!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

David Smith
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by David Smith » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:04 pm

My only help on this topic is that many years ago I owned #3547 and in looking at some old grainy pictures of the engine compartment I can see red horn trumpets. Are they original? Maybe.
1967 330 GTC #9313

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Tom Wilson
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Tom Wilson » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:07 pm

Ok, so lets pretend that your car actually got one of those silver horns that was sitting on the right side of the Fiamm workbench. What kind of proof would you have to have to convince the judges at Cavallino that they are the correct finish? Lacking actual photos of the car in its infancy, how could you prove that yours was not the red that they are used to seeing? I guess one flaw in the competition game is that it tends to homogenize cars by using a stricter standard than was used by the factory when the car was built!
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:17 pm

What's worse is you won't even know they deducted points for the color until well after the show when they send you your score sheet!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:18 pm

Tom,

As long as you have the human element in judging, there are going
to be misinterpretations as to what was original and what is not.
Some things may be missed or overlooked, others judged too
critically and harshly. Just the luck of the draw sometimes.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 30 GT s/n 8705

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Tom Wilson
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Tom Wilson » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:50 pm

What's worse is you won't even know they deducted points for the color until well after the show when they send you your score sheet!
Good point. If you have something that you know to be unusual about your car, how do you let the judges know? Do you tell them, leave build sheets casually strewn around or what?
As long as you have the human element in judging, there are going
to be misinterpretations as to what was original and what is not.
Very true. I guess you may have to occasionally take a hit in exchange for all the things they missed!
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
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TOMKIZER
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by TOMKIZER » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

tyang wrote:What's worse is you won't even know they deducted points for the color until well after the show when they send you your score sheet!

Tom
IF they send you your score sheet !!! I've asked the judge for mine three times since July and no longer even get responses. I'm now too embarassed to ask again.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:41 pm

Tom K.

Go embarass the judges for not giving you the score sheet.
Their fault, not yours! You should get it no matter what.

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:21 am

Trying to add something useful on Fiamm horn details, here is an ad from mid 1967 announcing Fiamm's 25th anniversary and their association with noteable marques. I have enlarged the horn area of the ad and put a smaller copy of the whole ad in the corner.
Items I noticed-
1) screws holding trumpet bases are shiny and not painted
2) plain nut holding trumpet, not the tapered nut or plastic chrome.
3) Fiamm logo stamped on bracket
4) hammertone compressor with bakelite bottom
5) red finish is candy and shiny gloss

This Fiamm Roadmaster horn with plastic chrome trim added to the trumpet nut would be the standard horn used on a Lamborghini Miura from 1966 thru mid 1969.
Maybe this will help
Craig
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Fiamm3b.jpg
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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:23 pm

tyang wrote:Hi Everyone,I'm in the process of detailing the horns in 3553 and I've got some questions.
The horn compressor on the left is what I feel is correct for FIAMM horn. Its body is black wrinkle, and the bracket is a nickel or white cad plate. The bottom of the compressor is painted semigloss black.The compressor on the right came off of 3553, and is basically painted all in hammertone gray. Whomever restored this car liked hammertone, as it in painted on many surfaces where it shouldn't be, but I wanted to make sure no one has seen this finish before on a FIAMM horn compressor. I've seen gray finishes on Stridor horns, but not FIAMMThe tops of both of these horns show MC/1 as the model number, but notice the different position of the oil filler cap. The black cap (correct one) came from a Lusso, so its age was probably about 1964, while the gray cap (green oil fill) is from 3553, which dates from about 1962. Anybody have similar pieces on their compressor? I know on my 330 America, it looks like the Lusso pump.[The horns on 3553 were painted in all hammertone. I know the housings are supposed to be hammertone, but the trumpets are supposed to be a candied red. I'd love to get a consensus before I start stripping paint. Thanks!Tom
Tom, can you provide higher res photos of horn17.jpg and horn18.jpg? i would like to see the ID plate details, especially the stamped numbers.
What is the manufacture date of 3553? oops , i see 1962.
Why would you doubt the originallity of the horn set that came off 3553?
Were you able to compare the internals of the two compressors?
thanks for any help
Craig
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