Horn Detailing

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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:56 pm

Rudy van Daalen Wetters wrote:In collaboration with....

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
Thank you Rudy, but what do the letters T.P.A.R. actually stand for ?
thanks
Craig

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:13 pm

Craig,

Noise levels are very strict in Italy and France.
Even Exhaust systems are mandated to be in accordance
with governing laws. My Maserati has a tag that it is
suitable per Italian law. In France, you have a city
horn (soft) and a country (horn) louder. In Paris
you will get into serious trouble should you honk
your horn. My thought is that the horn is built
in accordance with standards set by law.
ie, T.P.A.R. an acronym for the governing body
that approves these products?

Rudy

Daytona73
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Daytona73 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:17 pm

carello wrote:
Rudy van Daalen Wetters wrote:
but what do the letters T.P.A.R. actually stand for ?
thanks
Craig
Hello from France,

I have found that the letters T P are for "Travaux Public" from the ministry of transport and tourism ,Travaux Public studies and construct the roads.

The letter A is for avertisseur ,the word in French for horn.

The R is for route (road ,country roads as it had been said by Rudy) .

There is also a T.P.A.R.U in the law U is for Urban .

I think that the system found by TOMKIZER is right because I have a " 2J " for a 365 GTB/4 year 73.
So it would be a september 1972 "tag"...
2J Daytona 73 - .JPG
Daytona 73 "2J".JPG

@ Tom Yang ,Thank you and bravo for your site ,I have learned so many things from it !

Franck.
(excuse my bad English ..)

Daytona73
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Daytona73 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:21 pm

Here are the Daytona 1973 Pics.
2J Daytona 73 - .JPG
2J Daytona 73 - .JPG (255.05 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
2J Daytona 73 - .JPG
2J Daytona 73 - .JPG (255.05 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
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Daytona 73  "2J".JPG
Daytona 73 "2J".JPG (244.44 KiB) Viewed 6278 times

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:35 pm

Good find on TRAR!
"Travaux" is spelled Traveaux though.

Merci beaucoup,

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

Daytona73
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Daytona73 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:11 pm

Rudy van Daalen Wetters wrote:
"Travaux" is spelled Traveaux though.
No, not in French ....

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:23 pm

My apologies, you are indeed correct.

I have a hard enough time with English...

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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tyang
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by tyang » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:22 pm

@ Tom Yang ,Thank you and bravo for your site ,I have learned so many things from it !

Franck.
Welcome to our little corner of world for Vintage Ferrari! Thanks for joining us.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:17 pm

Daytona73 wrote:
carello wrote: but what do the letters T.P.A.R. actually stand for ?thanksCraig
Hello from France,I have found that the letters T P are for "Travaux Public" from the ministry of transport and tourism ,Travaux Public studies and construct the roads.The letter A is for avertisseur ,the word in French for horn. The R is for route (road ,country roads as it had been said by Rudy) .There is also a T.P.A.R.U in the law U is for Urban .I think that the system found by TOMKIZER is right because I have a " 2J " for a 365 GTB/4 year 73.So it would be a september 1972 "tag"..Franck.[/quote]

Wow, Great information Franck!
so T.P.A.R. would stand for Travaux Public Avertisseur Route

if i search for "Agréé Travaux Publics Avertisseur Route" the internet finds -
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... e=20091103

I believe you are exactly correct! Outstanding!
Merci
Craig

Daytona73
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Daytona73 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:45 am

Thanks for the welcome.
carello wrote:
tyang wrote:1. I took off my horn trumpets to refinish them again. My horns are in better shape, so I'd like to polish them, but I noticed the paint on my horns chipping off very easily. This might be from the paint not having enough "tooth" to grab on to. Thoughts? Tom
Tom, you are correct that the temptation is to polish the trumpets prior to paint. The rogue in the polishing contains silicates which deters paint from sticking as well as the slick finish not accepting paint well.
I polished mine then painted with Candy red from Duplicolor years ago and even with babying thru install they got nicked up. One finish i have seen lately is to anodize the FIAMM trumpets in clear candy red. This anodizing leaves an incorrect flat anodized look. Then the trumpets were clear gloss coated and they came out perfect!
My own current refinish technique is planned to be spinning the trumpets in a lathe with course steel wool to achieve an "LP record" finish and then spray with candy red rattlecan of the month from Autozone. I do stock House of Colors candy red bulk paint, but i am not motivated to fire up the gun for this task.

Keep us posted please
Craig
Concerning the serie 2000 (only),in my memories the trumpets (original) were anodized red on one of my father's Dino and painted blue on another one (before I paint them red, 246 gt/206 gt ) .But It was a long time ago (the Dinos are gone) and my memories can be wrong for the anodized...

Maybe a specialist could try to anodize the trumpets with the correct shiny candy red ,but I don't think it could be as beautiful as the Duplicolor paint from the pics I have seen posted.

Franck.

250GT
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by 250GT » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:47 am

I haven't seen these on this almost cult topic till now.

see three pics of N.O.S. horns of Fiamm.

unpainted nude horns.

C.

P.S.

When come some info on the more vintage full metal Fulgor Marchal horns and compressors ?

The pre 1960 owners cannot do much with these detective like investigations !
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part number in trompet horn
IMG_2374.jpg (57.78 KiB) Viewed 6206 times
IMG_2371.jpg
205 stamped in badge
IMG_2371.jpg (60.56 KiB) Viewed 6206 times
IMG_2373.jpg
two diff lenghts
IMG_2373.jpg (60.42 KiB) Viewed 6206 times

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carello
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by carello » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:19 pm

buurman wrote:I haven't seen these on this almost cult topic till now. see three pics of N.O.S. horns of Fiamm. unpainted nude horns.
C.
P.S. When come some info on the more vintage full metal Fulgor Marchal horns and compressors ? The pre 1960 owners cannot do much with these detective like investigations !
Thanks for the Mercury photos Cornelis, I have an avertisement from 1962 confirming Mercury as another model line of Fiamm horns. I would guess a a Marine or heavy truck type trombe, but i am not sure, just a guess.

Yes, research on Marchal Fulgor is needed. What do you have so far? Got any trumpets/avertisseur? got any compresseurs or brackets or relais? Better yet, where do we get a 1957 Marchal catalog with all their products and tech specs?
I would like to see and review such. Maybe an Automobile library in France? Somebody's French Ferrari literature collection?
Maybe i am dreaming?
Craig
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250GT
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by 250GT » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:19 am

Graig, What about this ??

C.
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IMG_2388.jpg (44.16 KiB) Viewed 6118 times
IMG_2390.jpg
Marchal bible 1+2
IMG_2390.jpg (45.36 KiB) Viewed 6117 times

Michael Bayer
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by Michael Bayer » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:20 am

Tom another bit of info to confuse the subject further, the air horns on the fiat Dinos were hammertone (don't know about the Ferrari versions) M
Michael J. Bayer
330GT s/n 9727
365GTC4 s/n 14943
Dino Spider s/n 1193

4REBUF
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Re: Horn Detailing

Post by 4REBUF » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:41 pm

Hi Tom,
This horn topic is high on my list of things to sort out as someone in my GTCs previous life messed up my horn setup completely. In my research I have found that all of the later 250 road cars seemed to have used the Fiamm Roadmaster horns. Note that I say seemed to have used. The comp cars often had Stridor horns. Anyway, the Roadmasters were used on the 250GTE, the Lusso, the Cabriolets and some early 275s and on your 330 America no doubt. The compressors were painted in wrinkle black with a smaller grain of wrinkle. This applies to the upper body and cap. The screws were standard oval headed natural steel, but I will use Stainless screws on the final resto. The plastic oil fill caps were all red are one piece so the tops tended to break off of the loop that held them in place. These caps are available from Mike Dunn. The horn trumpets had hammertone silver diaphragms and the two halfs held together with the same type of screws noted above. The horn trumpets themselves were painted a candy apple red and this has been the subject of endless discussion. Which shade of Candy Apple Red was it?? I am still trying to sort this one out, to get the right shade of red but in a durable paint finish. ie: not model paint. I should have mentioned that I think the compressor mounting brackets where just silver cad plated. I have a couple here and can take pics if needed. Everything was linked together with red plastic hose or tubing. This is also available from Mike Dunn. Some say the colour is a bit off. Also, I have seen some hose from the early cars that is red but also has a black Pirelli scrip painted on them. I have taken down the information for this script and plan to make a template or stamp to replicate it on the red hose. The hose was run to the two horns with a red plastic "Y" connector fitting. Anybody got one of these? I need it badly. The newer hose is stiffer than the original and is harder to slip fit on the metal ends of the parts so just heat the plastic abit with hot water to soften it when slipping them on. I have more to say but I am getting tired of typing. Clem.

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