Horn Detailing
Re: Horn Detailing
Craig, I'll try to get to the storage unit for a better photo next week. We're in the middle of a blizzard here.
I went back through all the posts here and noticed a trend. As previously noted and presented here, it's pretty obvious that the three-digit numerical stampings indicate the date of the compressor manufacture as follows: YMM , with the horn compressors posted here being:
112 = 12/61 for 1962 GTE
212 = 12/62 for 1963 GTE
111 = 11/61 for ?
611 = 11/66 for 67 Dino
Also, it looks like sometime later in the 60s, they changed their dating nomenclature to numerical/alpha with the number still being the year and the alpha character being the month as follows: A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, J = Sep, K = Oct, L = Nov, and M = Dec. In order to have an "M", it's necessary to eliminate one (probably "I" which is too easy to confuse with "1". That system would yield the following dates for the compressors posted here so far.
3M = 12/73 for 1973 246
8K = 10/68 for 1969 365 GT 2+2
8D = 04/68 for ?
2F = 06/72 for ?
9D = 04/69 for 1972 ?
1F = 06/71 for 1972 Espada
So far, the system holds, except the 3M timing is a little tight for the 1973 246, and there is no easy way, as far as I can determine, an accurate decade determinator.
Hopefully with enough information, you can determine a system to accurately identify the dates for the compressors, including the date when they changed numbering systems. Right now, it looks like the switch-over date is between late 1966 and early 1968.
Good luck, or alternatively, get-a-life. Ha Ha.
Tom Kizer
I went back through all the posts here and noticed a trend. As previously noted and presented here, it's pretty obvious that the three-digit numerical stampings indicate the date of the compressor manufacture as follows: YMM , with the horn compressors posted here being:
112 = 12/61 for 1962 GTE
212 = 12/62 for 1963 GTE
111 = 11/61 for ?
611 = 11/66 for 67 Dino
Also, it looks like sometime later in the 60s, they changed their dating nomenclature to numerical/alpha with the number still being the year and the alpha character being the month as follows: A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, J = Sep, K = Oct, L = Nov, and M = Dec. In order to have an "M", it's necessary to eliminate one (probably "I" which is too easy to confuse with "1". That system would yield the following dates for the compressors posted here so far.
3M = 12/73 for 1973 246
8K = 10/68 for 1969 365 GT 2+2
8D = 04/68 for ?
2F = 06/72 for ?
9D = 04/69 for 1972 ?
1F = 06/71 for 1972 Espada
So far, the system holds, except the 3M timing is a little tight for the 1973 246, and there is no easy way, as far as I can determine, an accurate decade determinator.
Hopefully with enough information, you can determine a system to accurately identify the dates for the compressors, including the date when they changed numbering systems. Right now, it looks like the switch-over date is between late 1966 and early 1968.
Good luck, or alternatively, get-a-life. Ha Ha.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
Re: Horn Detailing
Sorry,
The sentence,
"So far, the system holds, except the 3M timing is a little tight for the 1973 246, and there is no easy way, as far as I can determine, an accurate decade determinator."
should have been:
"so far, the system holds, except the 3M timing is a little tight for the 1973 246, and there is no easy way, as far as I can determine, to identify the decade."
Tom Y, we need an edit feature.
Tom Kizer
The sentence,
"So far, the system holds, except the 3M timing is a little tight for the 1973 246, and there is no easy way, as far as I can determine, an accurate decade determinator."
should have been:
"so far, the system holds, except the 3M timing is a little tight for the 1973 246, and there is no easy way, as far as I can determine, to identify the decade."
Tom Y, we need an edit feature.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
Re: Horn Detailing
The italian alphabet doesn't have J or K. So I would suggest A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, K = Sep, L = Oct, M = Nov, and N = Dec.TOMKIZER wrote: Also, it looks like sometime later in the 60s, they changed their dating nomenclature to numerical/alpha with the number still being the year and the alpha character being the month as follows: A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, J = Sep, K = Oct, L = Nov, and M = Dec. In order to have an "M", it's necessary to eliminate one (probably "I" which is too easy to confuse with "1".
--Josh
Re: Horn Detailing
DUH ! "Slaps forehead while hunching shoulders" ! I was so intent on examining the trees that I forgot to notice the forest. Good Catch !josh wrote:[The italian alphabet doesn't have J or K. So I would suggest A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, K = Sep, L = Oct, M = Nov, and N = Dec.
--Josh
That makes the 3M compressor on the 1973 246 less of a stretch.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
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- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Horn Detailing
Would someone kindly tell me which trumpet has the top position when installed on the car? Thanks.
john
john
PF Coupe
Re: Horn Detailing
another Serie 2000 compressor photo I find from a known all original application, one owner since new, not restored.
Appears to me to be 1M ........ 1 for 1971? alpha for?
Unpainted machine screws, flat black paint and nice oil cap add to authenticity. This beautiful, original Espada was at Quail 2008.
Craig
Appears to me to be 1M ........ 1 for 1971? alpha for?
Unpainted machine screws, flat black paint and nice oil cap add to authenticity. This beautiful, original Espada was at Quail 2008.
Craig
- Attachments
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- Espada1972_8842_1M.JPG (96.94 KiB) Viewed 11581 times
Re: Horn Detailing
John, My experience says longer on on top, if mounted to left inner fenderwell. Maybe short on top if mounted to right inner fenderwell, but i reserve the right to change my mind based on real evidence.John Vardanian wrote:Would someone kindly tell me which trumpet has the top position when installed on the car? Thanks. john
Craig
- Attachments
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- FiammAd1967copy.jpg (64.12 KiB) Viewed 11583 times
Re: Horn Detailing
josh wrote:The italian alphabet doesn't have J or K. So I would suggest A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, K = Sep, L = Oct, M = Nov, and N = Dec.
--Josh
1M = Nov 1971 ? It looks right to me for a 1972 Espada. So far, the system works.carello wrote:another Serie 2000 compressor photo I find from a known all original application, one owner since new, not restored.
Appears to me to be 1M ........ 1 for 1971? alpha for?
Unpainted machine screws, flat black paint and nice oil cap add to authenticity. This beautiful, original Espada was at Quail 2008.
Craig
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
Re: Horn Detailing
Hi Tom, i think we haveTOMKIZER wrote:Craig, I'll try to get to the storage unit for a better photo next week. We're in the middle of a blizzard here.
I went back through all the posts here and noticed a trend. As previously noted and presented here, it's pretty obvious that the three-digit numerical stampings indicate the date of the compressor manufacture as follows: YMM , with the horn compressors posted here being:
112 = 12/61 for 1962 GTE
212 = 12/62 for 1963 GTE
111 = 11/61 for ?
611 = 11/66 for 67 Dino
Also, it looks like sometime later in the 60s, they changed their dating nomenclature to numerical/alpha with the number still being the year and the alpha character being the month as follows: A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, J = Sep, K = Oct, L = Nov, and M = Dec. In order to have an "M", it's necessary to eliminate one (probably "I" which is too easy to confuse with "1". That system would yield the following dates for the compressors posted here so far.
3M = 12/73 for 1973 246
8K = 10/68 for 1969 365 GT 2+2
8D = 04/68 for ?
2F = 06/72 for ?
9D = 04/69 for 1972 ?
1F = 06/71 for 1972 Espada
Tom Kizer
309 for John Vardanian's coupe
501 for Jon Brent
Just in from VLG is January 68 Miura FIAMM with 705. The numbers cast into this compressor top are notable as well. I doubt if FIAMM or any company waited till a year end to implement changes, so we need more data to actually be informed of all months. We need more Ferrari FIAMM compressor tops please. Aren't these rather easy to see?
Please help in this study with pictures of your FIAMM.
thanks
Craig
- Attachments
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- Jan1968Miura#3309_705.jpg (153.94 KiB) Viewed 11556 times
Re: Horn Detailing
And of course now I re-read that and realize I should have said September is I, not K. Oh well, you get the idea.TOMKIZER wrote:DUH ! "Slaps forehead while hunching shoulders" ! I was so intent on examining the trees that I forgot to notice the forest. Good Catch !josh wrote:[The italian alphabet doesn't have J or K. So I would suggest A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = June, G = July, H = Aug, K = Sep, L = Oct, M = Nov, and N = Dec.
--Josh
That makes the 3M compressor on the 1973 246 less of a stretch.
Tom Kizer
--Josh
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Re: Horn Detailing
carello wrote:John, My experience says longer on on top, if mounted to left inner fenderwell. Maybe short on top if mounted to right inner fenderwell, but i reserve the right to change my mind based on real evidence.John Vardanian wrote:Would someone kindly tell me which trumpet has the top position when installed on the car? Thanks. john
Craig
Thanks Craig,
What's your logic behind the positions reversing when mounted on one side vs. the other?
This is the kind of stupid mistake that a pro would not make. Oh well, we're all learning.
john
PF Coupe
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- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Horn Detailing
I took this picture over a year ago and can't tell which trumpet should goes where. Any guesses?
john
john
PF Coupe
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- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:53 pm
Re: Horn Detailing
John,
I have to agree. The longer trumpet should be on top.
That is how they are on my GTE which I believe have not
been moved. Looks better too!
Best,
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
I have to agree. The longer trumpet should be on top.
That is how they are on my GTE which I believe have not
been moved. Looks better too!
Best,
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
Re: Horn Detailing
Hi John, great before photo, probably your best documentation to answer the question...i can't tell , but looks like short on top.John Vardanian wrote:I took this picture over a year ago and can't tell which trumpet should goes where. Any guesses? john
I looked over my documentation so far and i thought, early on, i was going to be able to say " always the long horn to the left bracket position". so i searched for pictures, of the era 1950-1970, of the opposite, i guess what.....i found some factory ads showing long horn on right bracket position of the " black compressor era" (1950-1965).
So what does this mean, about FIAMM trumpet mounting, based on my limited research? Certainly nothing definite.
And who really cares about these insane details anyway? Where is that judging sheet? How many points can you lose around horn faults?
You guys have got to be crazy!
Craig
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Re: Horn Detailing
Sometimes I wonder abut the insanity of all this too. Oh well, the difference is only 5mm anyway.
john
john
PF Coupe