Oil Change

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365 GT 2+2
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Oil Change

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:54 am

Team Tomyang.net -

Time for my first go at an oil change on the Queen. I've got the manual...any suggestions developed from experience on a 365 gt 2+2?

Thanks fellas

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TOMKIZER
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Re: Oil Change

Post by TOMKIZER » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:32 pm

On a Queen, the oil filters are bypass filters with a stand-pipe to keep them full of oil when the engine is off. The bypass is so that the oil keeps flowing when they get dirty and restricted and the stand-pipe is because they are installed upside down. Ferrari specified Fram 2804-1, which are now mostly only available on ebay or at a Ferrari parts place, and are expensive (about $30 each). In addition, a few people have had problems with them rupturing on cold start, probably mostly in cold weather. Another filter (claimed by many to be better) is Baldwin B253. It is supposed to have a higher rupture pressure. It is also a bypass filter with stand-pipe and is available at many diesel truck supply houses. I found them near me here in Quebec by going on the Baldwin web site and looking for a local distributor. They were less than $10 each. UFI apparently also sells filters for the Queen but I don't know the correct application and have no experience with them. Just be careful taking the filters off or you will have a real mess to clean up. Keep them upside down and vertical with a rag under them until you get them away from the engine. After installing new filters, don't rev the engine until you get good oil pressure. The filters take time to fill. Does anyone have a technique for pre-filling the filters or do you all just start it up and let it idle until the oil pressure comes up?

I use AMSOIL 20W50 synthetic racing oil and have had no problems. There are lots of old threads here and on the "other" chat site about the best oil for the old Ferrari V12 engines, transmissions and diffs. I, personally, do not recommend lubricants because they're like beer - everybody has his favorite.

Good Luck.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

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330GT
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Re: Oil Change

Post by 330GT » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:43 pm

365 GT 2+2 wrote:Team Tomyang.net -

Time for my first go at an oil change on the Queen. I've got the manual...any suggestions developed from experience on a 365 gt 2+2?

Thanks fellas
Well, my experience about what not to do came from the first oil change on my 330 GT. I had a 5 qt triangular drain pan which worked fine on the other cars I had ever owned. Not thinking at all, I tried to drain the 11 qts of the 330 oil into it. Made quite a mess. I should have known better, as I had put the 11 qts into it after rebuilding the engine only 600 miles before!
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

365 GT 2+2
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Re: Oil Change

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:06 pm

Ok thanks men. I'll let you know how it goes. Is it necessary to change the two oil filters each time one changes the oil? My problem is that I don't have a benchmark by which to tell when they were changed last...but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Is there a way to tell if a change of filters is required?

TB

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tyang
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Re: Oil Change

Post by tyang » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:26 pm

365 GT 2+2 wrote:Ok thanks men. I'll let you know how it goes. Is it necessary to change the two oil filters each time one changes the oil? My problem is that I don't have a benchmark by which to tell when they were changed last...but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Is there a way to tell if a change of filters is required?

TB
Hi Tom,

There is no way to tell if a car "needs" an oil change. Both should be changed at the same time, and you should do it now so you can track the mileage for the next one. 3K miles is a good oil change interval.

We use Castrol GTX 20W50 and it works well for most Ferrari climates. If someone drives their car in the dead of winter with sub freezing temps, I would consider a lighter weight oil because the oil filters could blow from the heavy weight oil. I've seen Frams and Wix filters blow up at the crimp but I have yet to see a Baldwin filter blow. I've seen the case expand from from over pressure, but the filter case remained intact.

At 3K mile oil change intervals, synthetic seems like a waste of money. If you go longer between oil changes because you're using synthetic, then you're not removing some of the particulate matter that is not collected by the filters. Filters also don't remove moisture in the oil, so frequent oil changes with regular oil makes the most sense to me.

Hope you have fun getting your hands dirty. It's very rewarding to take care of your baby.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

365 GT 2+2
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Re: Oil Change

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:17 pm

Ok thanks so much guys. Once the kids go down tonight it's me, Dad and a meeting with the Queens oil. We have a pair of FRAM 8A filters. I had to order some PH 2804s from T Rutlands but we want to get the oil change done this weekend...thoughts on using the Fram 8's? Its not like its so cold out here that we would have to worry about bursting but again, I don't want to go lookin' for trouble!

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tyang
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Re: Oil Change

Post by tyang » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:20 pm

Frams are fine, but there's a million opinions on the Internet on why they aren't. I prefer Baldwins.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

365 GT 2+2
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Re: Oil Change

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:24 pm

OK cool - I guess I just want to make sure that the Fram "8A" is an OK substitute for a few days - vs the correct 'number' Fram? And where do you order your Baldwins? I'm going with what you use....

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Re: Oil Change

Post by 330GT » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:57 pm

365 GT 2+2 wrote:...thoughts on using the Fram 8's? Its not like its so cold out here that we would have to worry about bursting but again, I don't want to go lookin' for trouble!
First, the 8As don't have a stand-pipe, so for the first several seconds, the oil pump is just filling the filters. Second, the 8As aren't as strong as the 2804-1s, so they are more likely to burst on start-up.

If you do put the 8As on, change them as soon as possible.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

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tyang
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Re: Oil Change

Post by tyang » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:39 pm

Geoff Ohland at Partsource has them, and I think the "usual suspects" like Ted Rutlands, and GT carparts. You can also find the local Baldwin distributor and order direct.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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Bryan P
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Re: Oil Change

Post by Bryan P » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:01 pm

and, if you haven't done it before, you'll learn how to safety-wire the drain plug before you refill!
1968 365 GT 2+2
s/n 11199
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
s/n 0556(0446)MD
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale

365 GT 2+2
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Re: Oil Change

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:18 pm

Hey Brian - can you hit me with the deets on safey-wiring the plug? Sounds like if I don't do it things will go fubar...any and all tricks o' trade wanted...I know we're just talkin' about an oil change here...

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Bryan P
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Re: Oil Change

Post by Bryan P » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:08 pm

the cool kids have this tool for fast and professional-looking safety wiring. Fortunately for me, my dad has one. the only trick to safety wiring is to remember to to wrap it in the direction of tightening the bolt head/plug. [attachment=1]tool.jpg[/attachment]

This pic is of the fuel pump safety wire on the 500. [attachment=0]safety wired.jpg[/attachment]
Attachments
safety wired.jpg
safety wired.jpg (200.11 KiB) Viewed 4907 times
tool.jpg
tool.jpg (144.07 KiB) Viewed 4908 times
1968 365 GT 2+2
s/n 11199
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
s/n 0556(0446)MD
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale

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TOMKIZER
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Oil Change

Post by TOMKIZER » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:03 pm

When I found this, I couldn't resist posting the link here.

http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

365 GT 2+2
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:32 am

Re: Oil Change

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:55 am

Team Tomyang.net --

Happy to report all went well. My Dad and I REALLY had to find the right position and angle to torque the oil nut loose. It was clear that someone before us had done a fairly good job of using a screw driver or chisel to hammer the nut loose in the past...But after a variety of different positions on my back and a few cuts on my knuckles we got it.

We followed the procedures in the manual and, once we got the nut off the oil change went smoothly. Ferrari recommends draining the oil and then sealing her up, adding a gallon of oil (before changing the filters) and then running the car for 10=15 minutes before draining the residual oil again. It's a bit nerve racking - so we just ran the car for around 7 minutes during this 'cleansing' step. The gallon of oil was absolutely filthy when we drained it although I was happy to see that, towards the end of the second draining, the oil was turning a more clear, amber color. So the cleansing step worked but I had my eye on the pressure gauge the entire time...it fluttered around a bit but stayed pretty constant, even with the car up on jack stands that we had cranked up a few notches so my Dad could comfortably get under the car on the creeper.

We went back and forth on which filter to use while we wait for the 'correct' ones to arrive this week. My Queen actually had a pair of Napa filters installed that, when cross-referenced at a local auto shop, brought up a Framm HP1. A few other sources said to use the 8A. After some debate, and after evaluating the size of each filter vs. the filters that are already in the car, we went with the 8A's. I have pictures which I will try to attach.

We added 11 quarts, changed the filters without a hitch (using the original filter wrench...it worked great!). We debated how much pressure to apply on tightening the filters back onm but, after applying some oil to the gaskets I just went by feel. The car has shown no leaks as of about 15 minutes of running the car and the oil level has settled-down just below the max line. So far, so good.

As simple a thing as changing the oil turned into a fun-filled afternoon on my birthday with my Dad. One of the pictures I will post shows Dad looking at the manualm with the 365 GT 2+2 parts book (all in Italian so we had to google some words for translation) under his arm and Tomyang.net on the computer in the background. We had just finished reading everyone's suggestions from the site and had searched for a few threads on tightening filters. It's a classic shot and an afternoon we'll both remember forever.

Thanks for everyone's help. A simple oil change turned into one of my greatest memories with my Dad. He's hooked on vintage Ferraris now, too.
Attachments
littlesleepyhelper.jpg
my daughter kate made the decision for us on the filter just as she woke up from a nap...
littlesleepyhelper.jpg (14.38 KiB) Viewed 4804 times
figuringitout.jpg
using all manuals, jim riff book and tomyang.net to get it right
figuringitout.jpg (13.11 KiB) Viewed 4802 times
goitfinally.jpg
after many attempts and many different tools and angles, we finally got the nut loose...
goitfinally.jpg (12.77 KiB) Viewed 4801 times

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