Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:09 pm

First I want to thank everyone who responded to my posting, months ago, about the repair of the power windows in my
'66 GTC. After months of working on this intermittently, admixed with some "approach avoidance anxiety", I finally got in some solid wrench time and they both now work great. While replacing both motors, I learned a couple of things: 1) Never buy cheap Chinese fuses from Jack's Tool Shed, no matter what any reviewer on Amazon says (makes Harbor Freight look like Snap On) B) The 4 wire motor from my car is readily replaced with a rebuilt or NOS motor from early '60's Fords Part ##C1A2 14553. Regards steve
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

User avatar
carello
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: eastcoast
Contact:

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by carello » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:07 am

Steve Meltzer wrote:First I want to thank everyone who responded to my posting, months ago, about the repair of the power windows in my
'66 GTC. After months of working on this intermittently, admixed with some "approach avoidance anxiety", I finally got in some solid wrench time and they both now work great. While replacing both motors, I learned a couple of things: 1) Never buy cheap Chinese fuses from Jack's Tool Shed, no matter what any reviewer on Amazon says (makes Harbor Freight look like Snap On) B) The 4 wire motor from my car is readily replaced with a rebuilt or NOS motor from early '60's Fords Part ##C1A2 14553. Regards steve
Steve, do you have any photos of old and new motors? This is a direct bolt up? and 4 wire as well?
Where did you source a new old Ford window motor? My quick search only finds Jon Brent site.
http://www.jb330gt.com/FerrariCrossRef.htm
thank you
Craig

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:29 am

They look exactly the same. Let me see if I can find any photos, I'll have to post the photos later, as I'm leaving for vacation in a few days. Yes, they are 4 wire motors and direct bolt in, tho' when I did the left window, I did trim the motor shaft about 1/4" and I'd do that again, tho' not critical. The 1/4" cuts down on the "slop" between the motor and the mounting bracket, but it will work either way (I didn't do it on the right.)

Go to Hemmings and look for purveyors of old T-Bird and Fairlane parts. I found 3 places without doing any real work. Bob's Birdhouse and T-Bird Sanctuary had nice rebuilt ones. I got an NOS unit from somewhere, but it was their last one. Feel free to email off line if you'd like. s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:00 am

OK, I'm gonna try to post some pix of the original motor from the left PW of my 330 gtc. I failed at this the first time, but will try again. If it doesn't work and you want the pix, email by PM and i'll send them. The left motor mounts with the shaft pointed down through the mounting bracket; this is in contradistinction to the right, where the motor shaft comes up through the motor's mount. As you can see from the pix, the left motor has a "funky" ground bracket from which the black ground wire comes...not so on the right, nor on my replacements, where it comes out of the body of the motor with the other three wires. This doesn't matter at all, so the lack of the stupid ground bracket is irrelevant. Sorry I have no pix of the rebuilt Ford replacements: my highly efficient son packed them in a box in my attic! Remember, the green wire is always positive, and must have "juice" in both the up and down positions. Email me if I can help. steve
Attachments
330 R PW motor B.jpg
330 R PW motor B.jpg (53.71 KiB) Viewed 4343 times
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:02 am

BTW: the Ford rebuilds look just like this motor, sans the funky negative/ground bracket. s
Attachments
330 R pw motor A.jpg
330 R pw motor A.jpg (61.08 KiB) Viewed 4344 times
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

User avatar
carello
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: eastcoast
Contact:

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by carello » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:57 pm

Steve Meltzer wrote:OK, I'm gonna try to post some pix of the original motor from the left PW of my 330 gtc. I failed at this the first time, but will try again. If it doesn't work and you want the pix, email by PM and i'll send them. The left motor mounts with the shaft pointed down through the mounting bracket; this is in contradistinction to the right, where the motor shaft comes up through the motor's mount. As you can see from the pix, the left motor has a "funky" ground bracket from which the black ground wire comes...not so on the right, nor on my replacements, where it comes out of the body of the motor with the other three wires. This doesn't matter at all, so the lack of the stupid ground bracket is irrelevant. Sorry I have no pix of the rebuilt Ford replacements: my highly efficient son packed them in a box in my attic! Remember, the green wire is always positive, and must have "juice" in both the up and down positions. Email me if I can help. steve
Hi Steve, these photos help quite a bit! The electric motor appears to a standard Ducellier unit that is used in many Italian and French cars of the era. The ground bracket appears to be a standard circuit breaker used to protect the motor and wiring, also common to the early 60's cars. To get a better confirmation, can you provide any dimensions from this unit? i will attach picture to show what i mean.
diameter of motor body in mm.
diameter of shaft in mm.
distance between studs in mm.
length of motor body in mm.
generally there is a plastic coupling to join both shafts with a flat area ground into the shafts to allow a lock fit. Is this the case here?

Thanks for any help
Craig
Attachments
330powerwindowmotor.jpg
330powerwindowmotor.jpg (112.65 KiB) Viewed 4281 times

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:10 pm

Craig, you must be a ^%*#&^* genius with Photoshop...hats off...nice pix! I leave for vacation in about 36 hours, and doubt I'll have time to get the newly rebuilt extra motors out of the attic and take the measurements; iffin' I don't, will you remind me, either on the website or by PM after May 21 and I'll get those measurements for you? Yes, there's a plastic insert that mates the motor "D" shaft to the "D" shaft of the PW drive unit (it's really a Rube Goldberg, yes?!). Regards steve
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:18 am

Craig, Got up early, good cup of coffee and quiet...got the measurements and then some.

Measurement Old Ducellier New Ford

A 51.14 51.60

B 87.88 93.83

C 59 59

D 7.97 7.97

Shaft total 15.52 23.88

“D” shaft only 9.95 11.60

All measurements in mm. Even though the Ford has a slightly longer shaft (so much for the French myth of great lovers!)
I doubt it matters, or you could machine it to perfection. I didn't do anything to mine on the right, but did shorten the "D" shaft on my left window. These measurements are taken from an unmolested rebuilt Ford motor. I can PM you if you'd like a pix of the Ford motor. steve
<schehehrazade@swbell.net> steve
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:14 pm

oops...I misspelled my email address! it's <scheherazade@swbell.net>
sorry the "table of data" looks more like a scrap heap than a table of data...I'd better keep my day job.
s
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

User avatar
carello
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: eastcoast
Contact:

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by carello » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:18 pm

Steve Meltzer wrote:Craig, Got up early, good cup of coffee and quiet...got the measurements and then some.
Measurement Old Ducellier New Ford
A 51.14 51.60
B 87.88 93.83
C 59 59
D 7.97 7.97
Shaft total 15.52 23.88
“D” shaft only 9.95 11.60
All measurements in mm. Even though the Ford has a slightly longer shaft (so much for the French myth of great lovers!)
I doubt it matters, or you could machine it to perfection. I didn't do anything to mine on the right, but did shorten the "D" shaft on my left window. These measurements are taken from an unmolested rebuilt Ford motor. I can PM you if you'd like a pix of the Ford motor. steve
<schehehrazade@swbell.net> steve
Hi Steve, thank you for the good measurement info. I got out one of my spare Ducellier motors and got similar enough measurements to confirm to me that these are indeed 4 wire Ducellier motors being used in the 330 series. I have a 2 wire Ducellier, i believe are a later design maybe 1969 and later.
My measurements are - A=51, B=89, C=58, D=8
The overload breaker is mounted to the side of case and is marked 10 on top, i assume 10 amps. I know my spare Ducellier came from a late 60's De Tomaso Pantera window.
thanks
Craig
Attachments
DucellierMotor2Wire2740.JPG
DucellierMotor2Wire2740.JPG (78 KiB) Viewed 4185 times

User avatar
TOMKIZER
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER » Tue May 19, 2009 6:15 pm

OK! Here's my situation. Upon removal from winter storage, my 365 GT 2+2 driver's side window has developed a springtime scream-and-chirp. It seems that the motor is the culprit with the upper (drive end) bushing (or bearing) making a terrible noise.

I've tried to find the Ford T-Bird motor discussed above and find two motors that cause a dilemma. On the Bird Nest site, the 58-60 T-Bird front and rear side window motor (14553/A) looks too fat and short to fit the measurements posted above. See the first photo.

On the other hand, the 61-62 T-bird quarter window motor looks like a Ducellier motor but has a funny part number (maybe a Bird's Nest rebuilt motor internal number?) See the second photo.

Critical dimensions are not given for either motor on the Bird's Nest site.

Which one is the correct motor to replace the Ducellier motor in Steve Meltzer's and Carello's posts above? Since Steve says the Ford motor looks just like the Ducellier motor, it must be the quarter window motor but the numbers don't match. HELP !!!!!!!

Tom Kizer
Attachments
yb.jpg
yb.jpg (28.2 KiB) Viewed 4122 times
qtr.jpg
qtr.jpg (15.65 KiB) Viewed 4118 times
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Tue May 19, 2009 7:05 pm

I'd call the T-Bird Sanctuary and have them rebuild your motor. If they can't, they can tell you which motor is most appropriate. I don't think it has to be that exact, but I'm no expert. steve
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

User avatar
TOMKIZER
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER » Thu May 21, 2009 5:23 pm

I ordered a rebuilt one like the long skinny one in the lower photo above. It's $125 plus $75 core charge at Bird Nest (an old Ducellier doesn't work as a Ford core). Besides, it's probably worth more than $200 even non-functional. I'll let you know how it works.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

Steve Meltzer
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer » Thu May 21, 2009 5:39 pm

Tom, Keep me posted. That's a good decision, I think. I just thought of someone who can rebuild your Ducillier if you want. Let me know. steve
steve
meltzer, "“With a Ferrari, whatever it is, it’s a $1000. If that’s what it is.”"
'66 330 GTC, '72 Daytona-red, did they make any other colors?

User avatar
TOMKIZER
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER » Thu May 21, 2009 5:51 pm

My old Ducellier runs but slowly and laboriously - and with lots of screeching. I'm sure that it just needs bearings and cleaning. I would appreciate knowing someone who can rebuild it. People here won't even talk to me about it.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)

Post Reply