Power Windows in my 330 GTC

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Steve Meltzer
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Tom, Call Terry Myr, and tell him I gave you his name. Excellent Italian car mechanic and very, very knowledgeable about this stuff. He couldn't rebuild my motor 'cause, like the right motor, it was shot and not salvageable. 810-367-3965 in Michigan.
steve meltzer
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TOMKIZER
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

Steve, the world truly is a small one. I lived in Michigan where I worked in the auto industry from 1968 til 2003. Terry Myr did a complete rebuild of my engine and reinstalled it during 1996 and 1997. I'll never forget my visitation rights (including the junkyard dogs and the sanctuary for injured wildlife). I'll give him a call about the Ducellier motor. Thanks for the tip.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Tom, email off line at <scheherazade@swbell.net> thanx s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters »

Tom,

You try rebuilding it...how hard can it be?

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

Rudy,
Good Idea!
When I get time.
Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

I received the 61-62 Thunderbird quarter window motor yesterday and installed it today. It works like a charm, however I did have to remove 1/4 inch from the end of the D-shaft and replace the connector with spade terminals to fit my car. I also had to identify which wires were Common, Up, Down, and Ground. The wire colors on the Ford unit are red, yellow, black, and green. On the original Ducellier unit they are black, yellow, blue, and green. HOWEVER, the colors vs functions don't correspond from Ducellier to Ford. A little experimentation solved the problem, and without even blowing any fuses.

The window goes up and down equally fast and smoothly now. When the Ducellier was working well, it was faster going down than going up, so even then it was working hard. The T-bird rebuilt unit is much better.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by 330GT »

TOMKIZER wrote:...I also had to identify which wires were Common, Up, Down, and Ground. The wire colors on the Ford unit are red, yellow, black, and green. On the original Ducellier unit they are black, yellow, blue, and green. HOWEVER, the colors vs functions don't correspond from Ducellier to Ford. A little experimentation solved the problem, and without even blowing any fuses.
...Tom Kizer
Well, what are the matching pairs?
Regards, Kerry
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TOMKIZER
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

[quote="330GTWell, what are the matching pairs?[/quote]

CAVEAT EMPTOR !!!!!!!! (Probably Misspelled) I take no responsibility for the following wire colors not being the same as anyone else's car. Hell, it's probably not even like my other door. I've shown both hookups, the Ford on the left and the Ducellier on the right.

Anyway, here are the wire connections that worked for my 1969 European 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 Driver's door. How's that for covering my ___.

Tom Kizer
Attachments
MOTOR WIRING.JPG
MOTOR WIRING.JPG (34.35 KiB) Viewed 10032 times
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

By the way. I had the Ducellier colors screwed up in my previous post, but the colors in the schematic are correct.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by 330GT »

TOMKIZER wrote:By the way. I had the Ducellier colors screwed up in my previous post, but the colors in the schematic are correct.

Tom Kizer
I fixed the posts, one advantage of being a moderator.
Regards, Kerry
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tyang
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by tyang »

Hi Guys,

It's looking like a great archive thread. Great job!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
250GT
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by 250GT »

Only for information;
Mine Citroen SM ( Maserati clone ) used the same very SLOW Ducellier motors.
these cars were buIld from 1970-75.
those owner have the same problems
Not available since years.

ciao
Cornelis
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

HELP!

After 34 years of mechanical engineering experience, I'm stumped. I'm not normally humble enough to ask for help on something mechanical, but neither am I a masochist.

I've unscrewed everything that is unscrewable but have not succeeded in disassembling the Ducellier window motor (the gray one shown in the Steve's and Carello's posts on page 1). How does one go about opening it up, short of taking a power saw or sledge hammer to it. It appears to be held together internally. Must I use a puller to remove the bearing carrier/end cap?

I've never disassembled a motor like this one and I don't want to damage anything internally, but once I've got it apart, I'm reasonably sure I can rebuild it myself. What's the secret?

Tom (humbled) Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by TOMKIZER »

OK, so being humble enough to ask for help was too traumatizing, so I went ahead and got it apart. It's a little like driving around looking for an address instead of asking for directions.

The bushing on the closed end cap (the end with the brushes) is hemispherical female with a hemispherical male end on the rotor. There are also finger-springs that the hemispherical male end of the rotor snap through for temporary retention during handling apparently.

The output end cap has a hemispherical female seat with a hole in it through which the shaft exits the end cap. The shaft output end has apparently a lubricated sealed bearing or bushing with a hemispherical shape that seats into the female seat in the end cap as the output shaft protrudes through. Again, there are finger springs in the end cap that snap over the hemispherical bearing to hold things together during assembly.

My Motor Status: The closed end cap bushing was dry, the brushes seem fine, the commutator needs turning or maybe a light sanding with really fine emery cloth but I'll have to think about that. It was at least working electrically before I took it apart. The whole thing is really dirty inside with carbon dust and dried grease. It looks like it needs a really good cleaning, lubrication, and careful reassembly. Like everything else on these old cars, things don't break, they just deteriorate to the point of needing cleaning and refurbishing. I'll know more when it's clean. I'll also post photos with explanations for others who want to rebuild theirs. Tom's "archive thread" has shamed me into making that committment.

Tom Kizer
So many sidewalk cafés - so little time left.
1969 365 GT 2+2 S/N 12293 (Gone but not forgotten)
1967 230 SL 4-spd (Currently on CPR)
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Power Windows in my 330 GTC

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Argghhhhh! Damn window on the driver's side quit abruptly! Fuse blown, which suggests that the motor died and it's newly rebuilt. Just when I was thinking I had this one closed out. Haven't had time to pull the panel (yet again...I should just velcro the damn thing in.) to see what happened. Gettin' tired of this.
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
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