BAAAD News!

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tyang
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BAAAD News!

Post by tyang » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:26 pm

Hi Guys,

I got to work today and got some bad news on my engine. There seems to be a leak between the head and the timing case on my 330 America! I was so concerned with sealing up the head gasket water passages, I must not have paid enough attention to these tricky o-rings on the timing chest. Francois scolded me in not checking by filling the radiator with water after the heads were installed. Now EVERYTHING has to come apart to seal these passages again. I should have used more silicone on these o-rings, but I hate using too much. I guess you live and learn.

The problem now is I need to find 3 days to remove the heads, and put everything back on. I'm also worried about how much work it'll be to remove this sealant I put on to seal things up. Boy, am I in for some work! With The Radcliffe/Tomyang.net party looming in a week and a half, and my need to work on some paying jobs, I may not have enough time to get my car ready.

The best thing is to walk away for a day or two, and regroup.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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tyang
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by tyang » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:24 pm

I spent the drive home tonight thinking over what happened. Francois has been slowly leaving me alone to work on the cars, and when it came time for me to work on my 330 America, I was largely unsupervised. I don't know if this was by design, or it was part of my training, but I'm certainly learning from my mistake! He's been great in showing the little pitfalls of Ferrari mechanics, but I guess there are just some things I need to learn from doing. We've installed a bunch of heads on cars before, but this was the first one I did on my own. I'm determined to get this thing right, but right now, I'm pretty bummed!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

william
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by william » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:14 pm

sorry about that Tom.

hang in there!!!
William
1979 Avanti s/n Rqb-3016
1962 GTE s/n 3447
1960 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider 1495*09775

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JAV
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by JAV » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:31 pm

Tom,

Believe me... I know the feeling!

There was a stretch some years ago that every head gasket I installed was a two-fer. The first one always had a problem and worse- I could find nothing to explain why it didn't seat right! I was literally afraid of head gaskets and expected to do them twice! Thankfully, the second ones always seemed to work using (what appeared to me like)the same exact sequence and parts source.

It started on my 240z and happened on 3 subsequent head jobs (on various cars) despite extraordinary prep, cleanliness and precautions. Eventually I just got so sick of having them fail despite all the extra work that I went back to "normal" proceedure fuguring I was just going to do it again anyway... and it never happened again. I think the head gasket Gods felt I paid my dues but I was DEMORALIZED for a while.

Hang in there and don't let it get you down... that which doesn't kill you surely makes you stronger.

BTW- I happened to be in Maryland over the weekend and stopped in at Ratcliffe. Both Richards were extemely nice and very excited about Yang event! I regret that the event falls on my daughters birthday and I can't attend or I'd be there even if my car couldn't be. I'm sure you'll be ready even if your America is protesting.

I promised Richard I'd say a prayer for good weather and a great event... I'll say one for you as well!
John Viveiros
1964 250 GTL

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Tom Wilson
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by Tom Wilson » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:42 pm

That has to be painful but I am sure your future clients are pleased, as you won't make that mistake again!
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
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http://www.250GTE.com

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by Rudy van Daalen Wetters » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:39 pm

"Success is 99% failure" - Soichiro Honda,
founder Honda Motor Company

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by 365 GT 2+2 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:01 am

TY -

Go easy mate - it will work out. It always does. And just remind yourself about how this website has kept guys from making big-time mistakes.

TB

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tyang
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by tyang » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:21 am

Thanks everyone for the support. I'll overcome this obstacle, just like the other ones I have overcome with this car. This website reminds me of all the other problems I had like when I found water in the differential or when I couldn't get the overdrive to work. All of these issues were eventually resolved, so comparatively this one doesn't seem so bad.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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klv
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by klv » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:37 am

Who needs sleep anyway Tom! You're still young :lol:
Kelly La Velle & Andrew Stevens

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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by 8339 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:33 am

Tom, after repairing cars for the last thirty five years I can tell shit happens and then shit happens again!! Anybody who has repaired cars for a living and says they have never made a mistake is full of it!! There's always pressure to get something done on time, there's always interruptions, and so on. Trust me I live it everyday. Youv'e seen the sign on my desk, It is what it is, and I now need another sign that says, Nothing Is Easy. Just performing an oil change can turn into a nightmare. Hang in there Buddy.


Richard Garre
Radcliffe Motorcar Company

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Bryan P
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by Bryan P » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:33 am

OR . . . haul it down to Radcliffe for the party and we can all work on it!!!

a potato chip down the intake manifold can't cause THAT much damage. . . .
1968 365 GT 2+2
s/n 11199
1955 s.II 500 Mondial
s/n 0556(0446)MD
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale

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sam231
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by sam231 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:23 pm

Bryan P wrote:OR . . . haul it down to Radcliffe for the party and we can all work on it!!!

Now THAT'S an idea!
Seriously Tom, bad luck but as all have said sh.t happens. Be thankful the mistake was found before taking the car for a spin!
'72 365 GTC/4 # 14953; ex-owner 330 GT 2+2 # 8025 :>(

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tyang
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by tyang » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:32 pm

The good news is I still have a ride down to the MD event in a Ferrari. Jay, who was riding shotgun in my car, has agreed to drive his Testarossa. It might not be a Vintage Ferrari, but it's got 12 cylinders, so save us a spot Richard!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

John Se
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by John Se » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:34 pm

Look at the bright side, you could be working on Jaguars! Learning those painfull lessons is what will make you more valuable in the future.

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330GT
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Re: BAAAD News!

Post by 330GT » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:35 pm

About 25 years ago, I rebuilt the engine on my 240Z. I used the same machine shop that did my 330GT a couple of years that.

In the process of cleaning and checking everything, they removed all of the freeze plugs. A new set was supplied when I picked up all of the parts and I put them all in. I assembled the engine, installed it, connected all of the plumbing and filled the oil. When I filled the radiator, I stopped at about 2 1/2 gallons as it was supposed to only hold two. Nothing was leaking, but when I checked the oil level, there was anti-freeze on the bottom of the dipstick.

It turns out that there was another freeze plug that wasn't supplied. It went at the front of the block and closes off the water passages from the timing chain area. As I was filling the radiator, the anti-freeze was just running out and down into the sump. Of course, by this time, the timing cover was installed with the timing chain, cam sprocket, tensioner, etc. all in the way. Luckily, I was able to remove the valve cover, remove the cam sprocket while keeping tension on the chain, move the chain out of the way and install a new freeze plug by fitting it in place and then using a pry bar and a wood block to push it flush.

Then I drained the oil/water from the sump, refilled the oil and the radiator. Then after running the engine just long enough to get the oil good and hot, changed it out and replaced the oil filter. It must have worked as I've put over 100K miles on the engine since.

I know that Tom's fix will be more involved, but the main loss, other than time, is replacing the head gaskets.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

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