The big exaggerator Ferrari

[250GT]

Just found an interesting side on the www.

http://www.carobu.com/html/250.html

Ferrari claimed for all 250GT about 240hp at 7000 rpm.
the Lusso 240/260 at 7000 rpm
330GT schould have a 300hp at 6600.
studying he curve of Carobo can be only frustrating.
No torgue at the low end.
As we all know HP thinking is children sh..
Ferrari driving is not to save fuel or angaging the overdrive.
It is to change the lawn ,and use all gears upwards and downwards ,and to press the throtle to the max.
Even the curves of the socalled hot SWB is dissapointing.
And these engines are fresh!
Was it fantasy writing to sell cars in those days ?

ciao
C.

[330GT]

...Was it fantasy writing to sell cars in those days ?

ciao
C.

I'm sure that it was. All of the build sheets I have from early days (when Ferrari would supply a paper copy) had the numbers on the Dynometer Page blanked out. Probably to prevent owners from seeing the 'real' numbers obtained when they tested the engine at the factory. Here's an example from 8617.

BuildSheet_3.gif (47.04 KiB) Viewed 9966 times

Here's the same page from when Ferrari was supplying build sheets a few years ago in PDF format.

8617p3.gif (25.66 KiB) Viewed 9966 times

They no longer cared if the numbers on 40 year old cars were shown.

[tyang]

Definitely a lot of boasting. I'm still a fan of the way a Ferrari engine "feels" compared to the way other cars develop power. My Ford 289 V-8 develops more power with a flatter torque curve, but I still like the way the Ferrari feels at about 4K+. Apples to oranges.

What frightens me is how much these people spent $$$ for a few more HP that they will only feel on the race track. Speaking about bragging rights.

Tom

[330GT]

...What frightens me is how much these people spent $$$ for a few more HP that they will only feel on the race track. Speaking about bragging rights.

Tom

The best way to add performance to your car is to lose weight. It's about 1 horsepower for every 10 pounds lost. So I could add 2-3 hp if my weight was where I would like it to be.

[250GT]

Definitely a lot of boasting. I'm still a fan of the way a Ferrari engine "feels" compared to the way other cars develop power. My Ford 289 V-8 develops more power with a flatter torque curve, but I still like the way the Ferrari feels at about 4K+. Apples to oranges.

What frightens me is how much these people spent $$$ for a few more HP that they will only feel on the race track. Speaking about bragging rights.

Tom

I would not ask this when I could not show an alterativ.
This is no bragging rights Tom !
this is intelligence motormanagement.
torque top at 4000 rpm .... 283,5 Nm.
This is fun.

C.

[Rudy van Daalen Wetters]

Will you be going on a diet then, Kerry?

Rudy van Daalen Wetters
1963 GTE s/n 4001
1966 330 GT s/n 8705

[Admiral Goodwrench]

Dear Yangsters,

Not being a professional engineer I almost hesitate to bring this up. I notice on many of the factory dyno reports pages a correction coefficient to adjust or correct for a difference in temperature and humidity at the time of the dyno test to some standard base atmospheric condition so as to be able to compare outputs attained in different atmospheric conditions. On the example factory dyno sheet shown earlier in this thread the correction factor was 1.05 (or 5% increase in the recorded HP). It would be interesting to know what a similar coefficient of correction would be applied to the HP graph posted by Buurman.

Best regards

[250GT]

Dear Yangsters,

Not being a professional engineer I almost hesitate to bring this up. I notice on many of the factory dyno reports pages a correction coefficient to adjust or correct for a difference in temperature and humidity at the time of the dyno test to some standard base atmospheric condition so as to be able to compare outputs attained in different atmospheric conditions. On the example factory dyno sheet shown earlier in this thread the correction factor was 1.05 (or 5% increase in the recorded HP). It would be interesting to know what a similar coefficient of correction would be applied to the HP graph posted by Buurman.

Best regards

Sir, I am afraid can give you an fuctionally adequate answer.
the dynoreport was made on sea level in Holland at Piet Roelofs engeneering.
so base standard, I think no upgrading tricks.
Motor is an 128F 250GT engine.
with standard exhaust six in one type.
standard Marelli ignition with points and condensers.
But 10.44 mm hot lift cams.
and the standard smaller stock valves.
Modified Weber 40DCL-6 carbs (3) not six !
but other venturis and defusers and big accl pumps inside.
for adequate preformance electric fispa must switch on permanent ,when preformance is to recall.
normally for this kind of preformance you need the six carbs confuguration.
standard exhaust pipe with one silancer on each bank.
Enforced alu house for rear axel squere (GTE )instaed of old type.

All the best
C.

[Tom Wilson]

Not having seen a dyno report before, I am not sure what I am looking at. Appears to be torque on the bottom and RPM on the left, but why does the line go back on itself?

Also, for comparison purposes, Kerry posted the dyno figures from the build sheet of a 330. Here is the one from my 250.

4247 HP.jpg (61.63 KiB) Viewed 9603 times

[DWR46]

On the Ferari factory dyno sheets, the Corrected BHP is calculated by multiplying the torque reading (Kg) by the RPM in thousands (4000 = 4) times the Correction Factor at the top of the sheet. You can use this formula to complete all the power numbers at each rpm for any factory dyno sheet.

The correction factor took into account ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc., so all engines could be compared to each other regardless of what the conditions were at the time of each test.

In my experience, Feeari was pretty accurate in their power claims up to the 275's and then the marketing department took over. Inside Plug 250's seem to produce about 220-230 bhp, Outside Plug 250's are normal 240 bhp engines. Inside Plug engines with 130 cams would give about 250-260 bhp, and Outide Plug 130 cammed motors are good for 275-282 bhp on the factory dyno. Most 330's put out about 250-260 bhp on the factory dynos. A 3carb 275 would produce 240-250 bhp. while a 6 carb 275 is good for about 265 bhp.

The factory claimed 300 bhp for a GTO, and we made 291 bhp on our Superflow unit calibrated very conservatively. However, our LM motor made 330 actual bhp, compared to factory dyno runs of about 302-308 bhp.

Just some numbers for everybodys enjoyment.

[Tom Wilson]

Thanks Dyke - that makes sense. Were was the correction factor a standardized number or was that a possible place for manufacturers to manipulate their horsepower ratings?

[Tom Wilson]

Outside Plug 250's are normal 240 bhp engines

I wish (see previously posted ferrari bhp rating)...maybe if I lose a few pounds!

And (before Rudy makes a comment) I should point out that when I said I had not seen a dyno report before, I meant that I had not seen a modern dyno report. I had seen the report for my car, but not really understood it. I now feel better about my car, but still do not understand Buurman's dyno readings.

[DWR46]

Every time a dyno run is made, the correction factor should change as the temperature, barometric pressure and humidity vary. You have hit on the best way to "produce" horsepower, just change the Correction Factor and make as much power as you want!!

I have dyno sheets for a 275 competition engine from a well known restorer that show 404 bhp. However, upon close examination, the correction factor used would have required the dyno run to have been done in the middle of the eye of a hurricane, as the barometric pressure would have had to have been that low to come up with the corection factor that they used. When we dynoed the same engine, it made 348 bhp, still a very stong 275.

[250GT]

Every time a dyno run is made, the correction factor should change as the temperature, barometric pressure and humidity vary. You have hit on the best way to "produce" horsepower, just change the Correction Factor and make as much power as you want!!

I have dyno sheets for a 275 competition engine from a well known restorer that show 404 bhp. However, upon close examination, the correction factor used would have required the dyno run to have been done in the middle of the eye of a hurricane, as the barometric pressure would have had to have been that low to come up with the corection factor that they used. When we dynoed the same engine, it made 348 bhp, still a very stong 275.

HP thinking is only interesting for those who race there cars,
Not very effective for street cars who drive daily.
These values above are, I say it not too loud....... extraordenairy

P.S. Holland is not familiar with hurricanes.

C.