Dual oil fillers

[h00kem]

What was the purpose of having dual oil fillers on the 330gt 2+2 engine? A prior owner removed one on my engine when they added an aftermarket AC unit and moved the alternator to the left side of the car. Other than not looking original does it make any difference that I now have one oil fill on the 1-6 cyl side and no oil fill on the 7-12 cyl side?

[Michael Bayer]

Well since no one has answered this I will try. For the Series II the filters are in parallel, and my guess, note guess, is that given the vast amount of oil in circulation (when can filters were designed, most cars had but 5 qts in them), and the high rates of wear the preceeding engines displayed (soft guides and less precise castings) and unlike the traditional service profile of a passenger car operating at very high revs infrequently, this engine was designed to be operated for sustained periods at very high revs, two filters in parallel created less restriction, enabling a higher flow rates, longer life. I know of one 209 that ran unrebuilt for more than 100,000 miles, no mean feat. However, I suspect Admiral Phillips may have a more informed view on this as he actually knows something about fluid dynamics............M

[8339]

To add to Michael's description, if you look at vintage Ferrari motors the architecture is based on racing engines. Enzo being an engine man always wanted his engines to be robust, which they are. My understanding is, there is one filter which is a main filter, usually mounted on top of or near the oil pressure relief valve and the secondary filter which is a by-pass filter in case the primary is overcome with excessive pressure or it clogs. If these engines are run hard you'll find the seconday filter hot, doing it's job. Modern oil filters have had a by-pass feature for the last 30 years or so. Considering the quality of oil in the days when the first Ferraris were designed, it's no wonder the oiling system was overbuilt. My S2 has one filter mounted to the pressure valve housing and the other one is mounted on the left fender. My 330 does have factory A/C with the alternator mounted on the left front but facing the front rather than reversed like most. I have only seen this arrangement a few other times for what's it's worth.

[330GT]

... My understanding is, there is one filter which is a main filter, usually mounted on top of or near the oil pressure relief valve and the secondary filter which is a by-pass filter in case the primary is overcome with excessive pressure or it clogs. If these engines are run hard you'll find the seconday filter hot, doing it's job. ....

Correct. The oil pressure valve is adjustable. See http://www.tomyang.net/cars/phpBB3/view ... f=2&t=3441 for a discussion on how the pressure relief valve works.

...
My S2 has one filter mounted to the pressure valve housing and the other one is mounted on the left fender. My 330 does have factory A/C with the alternator mounted on the left front but facing the front rather than reversed like most. I have only seen this arrangement a few other times for what's it's worth.

The early S2 (and interim) cars used the A/C compressor mounted with the pulleys forward, until Ferrari changed to the 2 engine mount system. Tav 38 of the S2 parts book shows the mountings that way. That page also includes the parts to mount the alternator on the left side. Tav 39 also shows the mount for the extra fan that would be welded onto the X-frame in front of the radiator. For the A/C parts for the later S2 cars (A/C pulleys mounted to rear), one has to look at the 330 GTC parts manual.

Hookem,
My advice would be to add the bypass filter base and oil lines. Since there is nowhere for the by-passed oil to go now, the oil pressure could get quite high and perhaps burst your single filter.

[Michael Bayer]

Kerry and Richard I agree that is the way oil flows in the 4 mount motors, but I thought in the 2 mount motors the filters are in parallel and are engaged equally at all times, M

[h00kem]

Guys, thanks much for the thorough response. However, my question was about the dual the oil FILLS, not FILTERS. I have two filters, the prior owner removed one of the two oil fils on the car. Does it matter?

[Michael Bayer]

Filters smilters....it was much more fun to talk about filters......as to fillers I don't even have a guess.

[h00kem]

Agree Michael...filters are a much more controvercial and therefore fun topic, only second to "which oil to use' perhaps! As to fillers I have no idea why Ferrari engineered the car with two fillers rather than one...but there must be a reason. Symetry and balance to make the engine even more beautiful? I suppose since my car has been running with only one for some time I shouldn't worry about it but I am redoing the car so there is some appeal to taking it back to original. But now I am bumping up against the question of at what cost...the cost of the parts to add back the filler isn't cheap!

[tyang]

If I had to guess, it was either a symmetry thing or the ability to add oil from either side of the car during a pit stop!

Tom

[250GT]

If I had to guess, it was either a symmetry thing or the ability to add oil from either side of the car during a pit stop!

Tom

Yangers,

Two breathers or fillers are ABSOLUTLY necesarry on a Ferrari race engine
when the car is making his round on a right or left turning racecircuit the oil is mainly swapped to ONE side !!!!
so this breather/ filler on this side is CLOSED .the carter and oil pump need oxygene or air to pump.,other wise vacuum or undepressure
A GTE or 330GT engine were designed after race engines
When you drive plain on the normal road you will not have problems of course.
Hope this help.

Well its only a hobby here

C.

[250GT]

If I had to guess, it was either a symmetry thing or the ability to add oil from either side of the car during a pit stop!

Tom

Yangers,

Two breathers or fillers are ABSOLUTLY necesarry on a Ferrari race engine
when the car is making his round on a right or left turning racecircuit the oil is mainly swapped to ONE side !!!!
so this breather/ filler on this side is CLOSED .the carter and oil pump need oxygene or air to pump.,other wise vacuum or undepressure
A GTE or 330GT engine were designed after race engines
When you drive plain on the normal road you will not have problems of course.
Hope this help.

Well its only a hobby here

C.




Hookem, See.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari- ... 500wt_1182

Read further what the caps costs. 1780 USD !! asking
Well these are dutchman, like me.

ciao
C.

[h00kem]

Thanks very much. I stopped by the shop today working on my car and essentially learned the same thing you have said...absolutely necessary for proper breathing of the engine. Fortunately he has an extra filler for my left side but unfortunately he wants $1200 for the total assembly. Your note about $1700 for the cap alone made me feel better about my decision to have them add it back to my car. Thanks!

[DWR46]

On the subject of the OIL Filters, I am not sure all the previous posts have it exactly correct. The engines using one PH2815 and one PB50 filter do so because the PH 2815 is the full-flow unit. It filters all the oil all the time. It has its own bypass valve internally to make sure the engine is oiled if it becomes clogged. The PB50 is a Bypass Style filter. It has NO connection or relationship to the full flow filter. The PB50 filters oil that is bled off the oil pump itself and then just returns that filtered oil to the oil sump. It's purpose is to filter some of the oil (eventually all of the oil will get through this filter), all the time, but to a finer micron filtration than the full flow unit. The PH2815 could not pass the large volumnes of oil the engine requires if it tried to filter that oil as finely as the PB50. So the PH2815 filters ALL the oil all the time, and the PB50 filters SOME of the oil, but to a finer level of cleanliness.

The other posts related to the twin PH2804-1 filters are correct in that the two filters are in parallel simply provide less chance of the system starving for oil due to a restriction at the filter.

Dyke

[kare]

So the PH2815 filters ALL the oil all the time, and the PB50 filters SOME of the oil, but to a finer level of cleanliness.

AFAIK, these filters are also parallel - PH2815 filters the main stream to bearings and PB50 filters the excess oil on its way back into sump. This system is often used on machinery that is operated in very dirty environments (construction machinery etc.) or the oil in system needs to be extremely clean for maximum performance and reliability (Ferrari). The oil stream is divided so that maybe 25% of the oil goes through main filter and 75% through by-pass, so it is the by-pass that does most of the filtering. The main stream filter is there mainly to secure that en eventual loose particle does not end up in the passages restricting oil flow to bearings.

[DWR46]

KARE is correct. I should have been more clear and said that the PH2815 filters ALL THE OIL GOING TO THE BEARINGS all the time. I do believe that, in the Ferrari situation, the split of oil flows between the two filters is more like 90/10 as the oil lines to the PB50 are quite small and the feed is just a bleed off of the pump housing.

Dyke