FCA Judging

[jcwconsult]

What would happen if there were multiple Silver and Gold awards? That might help to encourage more people to come and enter for judging -- just as those with the solidly platinum level cars know they can take home a trophy, even theirs is not the "best" one in the group that day. A 92 point car is worth honoring, even if there is a 94 point car at the show that day.

I also agree on finding some way to acknowledge and compensate for the miles driven that year. It does make a difference in how "perfect" the car can be -- unless you are willing to spend mega-bucks before each show to correct small wear and tear faults that mean nothing to the pleasure of driving the car or its reliability. We picked up a large paint chip on the 160 mile drive to Fort Wayne this weekend for the Ferraris and Friends event (see F-Chat in the 308 section), but I would not have missed the event. There were WAY too many trailers there and far too many people who were amazed that we drove to the event - even at that modest distance - and would rely on the car to take us home afterwards.

I remember reading a Daytona owner's comments at a big concours where he said it is OK for about 10 minutes running, and then we have to start over with the fine detailing. That is utter nonsense. Jim Glickenhaus has the right idea about putting miles on his Ferraris - see the tag line on his posts as "Napolis" on F-Chat.

[Yale]

I don't think any of these ideas will make a whit of difference, oh ok perhaps a whit, but only just. There are people who like to enter their cars in concours' and people who don't. There are people who will pay $375 for the privlage and people who won't. There are even some people who don't care if they win a $35 award or not, shocking, I know. There are very few events I have been too that are particularly special enough to encourage people in old Ferraris who don't go to concors' to come out. Goodwood, Festival of Speed and it seemed the old Concorso Italiano are ones that come to mind at the moment.

For the most part, the old cars are overwhelmed by not only the new cars, but the new car owners. And that really is where the story ends. This is a hobby and like all hobbies it is an oportunity to socialize with others who have a shared interest. When that shared interest is so much in the minority it changes the experience into being the wierd table in high school, the joint smokers at a suburban whisky party, a republican in NYC. It's just not as much fun when you are hanging out with the same seven people in Millville NJ, Reston, Va, Copake, N.Y. as it would be if most of the few hundred people you were with knew what the fuck that slow, smelly, antique car was doing here anyway.

[Lowell]

Fixing up a car to be judged is a great way to get know your car in great detail.
Some of us enjoy this fixing and the knowledge that comes with it.
Having the car judged is useful in finding out things that we overlooked to fix.
Not having all cars get awards even if they have the points to qualify, just
because some other car has a 1/2 point more, detracts from the experience.

[TOMKIZER]

I'm not complaining or "arguing with the umpire", but I agree it would be nice to be able to compete with the trailer queens at a show. I can attest to the fact that just getting to a show without a tow vehicle and a closed trailer makes it difficult to compete successfully - not impossible, but extremely difficult. Under those conditions, winning the same level prize at two shows within a couple of months of each other would be almost impossible.

I can say with confidence that getting home from Cavallino to Quebec cost me from three to five points. Half the trip was on an open trailer in a snowstorm on salted roads, and half was driving on the freeway with trailer trucks passing and being passed in the adjacent lanes. After nine months, the car is still not as good as when I left for Cavallino.

In my opinion, there should be a separate class for cars that are mechanically and cosmetically correct (all the right original or reproduction parts with the as-built paint color and upholstery) without too much regard for the "pristine appearance of the plating". Why should a 50 year-old car be polished and waxed to look like new?

It seems to me that too many of the points to be had in judging are only available to those laying out lots of money.

Just my opinion. As I told my friends after Cavallino XIX, "I'm done with having my car judged - it's too painful." It's also too expensive.

Tom Kizer

[Admiral Goodwrench]

Yale wrote:

" It's just not as much fun when you are hanging out with the same seven people in Millville NJ, Reston, Va, Copake, N.Y., as it would be if most of the few hundred people you were with knew what ... that slow, smelly, antique car was doing here anyway."

At the FCA National meets in May 1991 and May 1997 Bryan can share come of the vitriolic comments about that piece of junk I keep bringing to the car shows. I continue in my quest of telling anyone who will listen about the early history of Ferrari race cars, the four cylinder ones in particular, and yes there are vast numbers of FCA members who do not know anything about the early cars. Hopefully the incredible harvest of five awards at Millville will at least bring some awareness. Sadly there was only one other early car on the track with me, the dark burgundy 250 GTE.

As to fun hanging with the same seven people, I am singularly blessed with the selfless help I get from my more than seven un-uniformed Team Mondial members: Bryan, David, Zac, Tom, Mike, Mark, Billy, Michael, and yes Yale. Whether it is Pebble Beach, Cavallino, Elkhart or Millville I can count on at least 3/4 of the Team to be there providing all the support a guy could ask for. That kind of friendship is worth more than all the trophies.

Thanks guys.

Robert

[Yale]

Yes of course the fact is hanging out with each other is what it is all about. And Admiral helping to push your car up the Pebble Beach stage ramp was a real highlight of my whole cars - as - culture expierience. It is an opportunity to see all of the handful of us and I do really enjoy that. But can you imagine if there were 100 people with vintage Ferraris at these things....that would be such a gas.

I'm afriad they are not going to come because of concors rule changes though. They are going to come because the event as a whole values them, makes it easy for them and becomes a pungent enough experience that they so enjoy that it creates a powerful magnetism. That sort of event doesn't really exist here in the states does it?

[Admiral Goodwrench]

Dear Yale,

I would submit that the annual Radcliffe/Tomyang.net Spring Car Show is as close as you are going to get to the desired experience.

Best regards,

Robert

[tyang]

I Love the comrade-re of the vintage crowd, and value all the friends I've made, but don't ever want it to turn into "the wierd table in high school!" I work very hard at introducing new members to our little crowd and invite them into our world, and what the Admiral does with educating anyone who will listen with his car is part of the our ideal. I certainly do not expect our group to be the most popular, nor do I want it to, but I would welcome anyone with similar interests and passion!

The shows I host are another movement towards finding things for us to share in our passion without having to suffer through the shows that make our hobby less enjoyable. The great constructive input I've seem from this thread helps me formulate what I can do to make our enjoyment of Vintage Ferraris more fun...and no, it's not just the 2+2 crowd. I've spoken to quite a few owners of Lussos, GTCs and other Vintage Ferrari models that feel the same way we do.

Tom

[365gtc/4]

For the most part, the old cars are overwhelmed by not only the new cars, but the new car owners. And that really is where the story ends. This is a hobby and like all hobbies it is an oportunity to socialize with others who have a shared interest. When that shared interest is so much in the minority it changes the experience into being the wierd table in high school, the joint smokers at a suburban whisky party, a republican in NYC. It's just not as much fun when you are hanging out with the same seven people in Millville NJ, Reston, Va, Copake, N.Y. as it would be if most of the few hundred people you were with knew what the fuck that slow, smelly, antique car was doing here anyway.

I agree with Yale. I am not a concours guy but I do enjoy looking at "perfect" cars at places like Pebble. I like to drive my cars and do not have the $$$$ to make them "perfect" after driving them. And to be truthful I couldn't be bothered anyway. In Australia there is the gap between old and new drivers that is the same the world over. So about 10 years ago a bunch of old car guys got together to start the carby thing, whereby guys with carby equipped Ferrari could go on drives together and enjoy their cars AND each others company. Just to have some fun with like minded people. Now we have about 6 drives per year with 2 of them 2 or 3 day events. We drive around 1000 miles over the 3 days, sometimes near red line in the higher gears !! Now the annual big event attracts up to 50 cars so Yale there is your 100 like minded people. We have a lot of fun. I have spoken with Tom W, Tom Y, Bryan P, Zac, Michael B etc about these events and really you guys should just organise these events yourselves. We do. I have given rally intruction booklets and rally reports to Tom Y, Zac and Bryan P so they know what we do. Here are 2 sample reports.
http://www.fcavic.com/members/pastevent ... mckay.html
http://www.fcavic.com/members/pastevent ... index.html
I can attach more if you guys are interested.
John

[Jimmy Chen Shiba]

Great stories, guys/gals. As someone not very keen with all these events, there's real people here. Thanx. w/ smiles Jimmy

[365gtc/4]

Here are a few photos from a few other "carby" events.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showth ... owe&page=5
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showth ... light=lowe

[klv]

We have to feel a little sorry for the 'newbies' on the F-car scene with their moderns. After all, where else are they going to go while wearing all their red clothes?

But seriously, the older cars to tend to get crowded out, even here in the UK. Although I do notice that now that we turn up with a presentable car, we do get more attention and more privelidged parking at some events compared to the moderns! The 'Carby Runs' are a great idea and are working for the guys on the East coast in Aus. The UK guys try and organise 1-2 events a year that are similar, so I guess that's the way to go in the long run. Keep taking them out to normal events as well and some of the modern guys will get it eventually - especially when they see their cars depreciating while yours are not!

[tyang]

Hi Guys,

John Bishop (365GT/4) sent me these PDFs about the carby car events held down in Australia.
http://www.tomyang.net/cars/WH%20Lowe%2 ... 202009.pdf
http://www.tomyang.net/cars/Lowe%202009%20Modified.pdf

Interesting event.

Tom

[xs10shl]

One solution is so simple I'm surprised it has not yet been mentioned: never consider getting your car judged, or how many points you might get at any FNA event. Instead, just show up, park, lock your car, relax and stroll the grounds. Buy a $10 hot dog. Drink a $10 beer. Observe the occasional guy crouching beside his car, toiling with his Q-tips doing a last minute detailing. See the sweat dripping off his brow while he scrubs. Have another sip of beer. Ahhhh, good stuff!

I've been doing this for years, and I have to say I'm a pretty content Ferrari owner!