1st time Ferrari Owner
1st time Ferrari Owner
Hi Everyone,
I recently purchased my first Ferrari (or remnants thereof), a ’61 250 GTE series II; I love project cars and didn’t really need another one but when I inquired about the car, the seller told me he had another buyer who wanted him to cut the car in half and ship it to Europe. After hearing that, I drove the 1500 miles and rescued the car. I know there are people out there that frown upon vehicles like this but I just wanted to make it clear that I bought the car in this condition and had nothing to do with removing parts from this car.
Let me explain; unfortunately the car suffered the same fate as other GTEs I have discovered, a re-body. The car had been liberated of its chassis, drive train, suspension, Borrani wheels, lights, grille, seats, and gauges along with the VIN number and title as well as some of the miscellaneous hardware.
With the help of a fellow member, I was provided the original serial number and history based on the production numbers stamped on the parts. With a little leg work, I was able to track down a previous owner and with a few images and a two hour conversation; I was able to confirm that the serial number is correct for this car. There were some modifications and quirky repairs done to the car that he was able to verify. Hopefully he will be able to find some of the back registrations, this will help me try and obtain a title for the vehicle.
My plans are to make the car look as original as possible but at think putting the car back to its former glory would not be economically viable. I do plan to replicate the original chassis once I find the correct schematics, but some of the missing parts on their own are likely worth more than the car as a whole. Currently I am replacing missing parts; I was able to find the door strikers off an Alfa and the side markers off a Fiat that are the same as the ones used originally. I am currently trying to figure out what headlamp buckets and windshield wiper stems will work on this car.
The good news is that if anybody needs a good image of the floor pan cross section with its multiple layers and foam insulation, I can help you with that courtesy of somebody’s reciprocating saw!
I have a bunch of questions that I have yet to resolve but hopefully with a little luck and the wisdom and help from you good folks, I might have this car back on the road someday.
I recently purchased my first Ferrari (or remnants thereof), a ’61 250 GTE series II; I love project cars and didn’t really need another one but when I inquired about the car, the seller told me he had another buyer who wanted him to cut the car in half and ship it to Europe. After hearing that, I drove the 1500 miles and rescued the car. I know there are people out there that frown upon vehicles like this but I just wanted to make it clear that I bought the car in this condition and had nothing to do with removing parts from this car.
Let me explain; unfortunately the car suffered the same fate as other GTEs I have discovered, a re-body. The car had been liberated of its chassis, drive train, suspension, Borrani wheels, lights, grille, seats, and gauges along with the VIN number and title as well as some of the miscellaneous hardware.
With the help of a fellow member, I was provided the original serial number and history based on the production numbers stamped on the parts. With a little leg work, I was able to track down a previous owner and with a few images and a two hour conversation; I was able to confirm that the serial number is correct for this car. There were some modifications and quirky repairs done to the car that he was able to verify. Hopefully he will be able to find some of the back registrations, this will help me try and obtain a title for the vehicle.
My plans are to make the car look as original as possible but at think putting the car back to its former glory would not be economically viable. I do plan to replicate the original chassis once I find the correct schematics, but some of the missing parts on their own are likely worth more than the car as a whole. Currently I am replacing missing parts; I was able to find the door strikers off an Alfa and the side markers off a Fiat that are the same as the ones used originally. I am currently trying to figure out what headlamp buckets and windshield wiper stems will work on this car.
The good news is that if anybody needs a good image of the floor pan cross section with its multiple layers and foam insulation, I can help you with that courtesy of somebody’s reciprocating saw!
I have a bunch of questions that I have yet to resolve but hopefully with a little luck and the wisdom and help from you good folks, I might have this car back on the road someday.
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- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Hi Howser:
Sounds adventurous. Can you post some pics?
Cheers
Sounds adventurous. Can you post some pics?
Cheers
Steve Lapp
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
can you share the serial number? we may be able to tell you what happened to the rest of the car.
1962 250 GT/E 3921, 1978 308 GTS 26845
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
I for one am always interested to see more pics of the floor structure.
Original headlamp buckets are standard Marchal parts for French market (likely as PF designed Peugeot 404 at the same time, so he used the same parts for limited production car like a Ferrari). Pretty expensive stuff with Ferrari mark-up but costs only peanuts if you find one marketed as a Renault/Peugeot/Citroen part. I am pretty familiar with the wind screen wiper system having rebuilt mine from almost nothing. You may enjoy pictures here:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/project/umpio.htm
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/project/wiper.htm
And yes, knowing serial number would help to know exactly what specs your car was built with. Many revisions occurred from late S.1 to mid S.2.
Best wishes, Kare
Original headlamp buckets are standard Marchal parts for French market (likely as PF designed Peugeot 404 at the same time, so he used the same parts for limited production car like a Ferrari). Pretty expensive stuff with Ferrari mark-up but costs only peanuts if you find one marketed as a Renault/Peugeot/Citroen part. I am pretty familiar with the wind screen wiper system having rebuilt mine from almost nothing. You may enjoy pictures here:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/project/umpio.htm
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/project/wiper.htm
And yes, knowing serial number would help to know exactly what specs your car was built with. Many revisions occurred from late S.1 to mid S.2.
Best wishes, Kare
250 GT 2+2 3197/GT
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
kare wrote:I for one am always interested to see more pics of the floor structure.
Original headlamp buckets are standard Marchal parts for French market (likely as PF designed Peugeot 404 at the same time, so he used the same parts for limited production car like a Ferrari). Pretty expensive stuff with Ferrari mark-up but costs only peanuts if you find one marketed as a Renault/Peugeot/Citroen part. I am pretty familiar with the wind screen wiper system having rebuilt mine from almost nothing. You may enjoy pictures here:
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/project/umpio.htm
http://koti.welho.com/kpietil4/project/wiper.htm
And yes, knowing serial number would help to know exactly what specs your car was built with. Many revisions occurred from late S.1 to mid S.2.
Best wishes, Kare
The very helpfull info from Kare here and on an other side is reliable like no other.
But his bucket with the bluebackground is for outside big chrome ring cars.
like Peugeot and Citroen and PFcoupe, SWB etc but only 1960- 61.
on the 12 hour position the top lip is missing the two spring cilps (on 5 and 7 hours ) keep this chrome ring inplace.
Well when remove these it will probebly fitt.
the variations on all Marchall stuff is HUGH.
the 7 inch models can be found on most US export models ,7,25 mainly on Europeen models.
C.
- Attachments
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- Kare's bucket
- umpio2.jpg (33.16 KiB) Viewed 13617 times
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- Little tonque on bottom only 1959-60 SWB
- 8648676319.jpg (91.33 KiB) Viewed 13620 times
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Hello Howser,
Welcome to my forum. We always love pictures!
It sounds like you have a daunting task ahead of you and anything we can do to help, let us know.
Tom
Welcome to my forum. We always love pictures!
It sounds like you have a daunting task ahead of you and anything we can do to help, let us know.
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Kare, this is missing on your part .
see pic
Probebly the reason why it was so cheap ?
rotten away ?
C.
see pic
Probebly the reason why it was so cheap ?
rotten away ?
C.
- Attachments
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- clip for chrome ring on top
- IMG_2890.jpg (50.63 KiB) Viewed 13595 times
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Thank You all for your replies.
The serial number on the car was 3121 which according to the paperwork makes it the 6th series II car built in 1961.
As for the missing parts, I was told they went into a GTO replica that was there in the shop when I picked the car up.
I have posted a few images of the car, I will get am image posted later of the floor cross for those that were interested.
Matt
The serial number on the car was 3121 which according to the paperwork makes it the 6th series II car built in 1961.
As for the missing parts, I was told they went into a GTO replica that was there in the shop when I picked the car up.
I have posted a few images of the car, I will get am image posted later of the floor cross for those that were interested.
Matt
- Attachments
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- front 11111111111.JPG (109.5 KiB) Viewed 13491 times
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- side 11111111111111.JPG (115.19 KiB) Viewed 13490 times
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- rear 11111111111.JPG (109.84 KiB) Viewed 13488 times
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
It is identical with the ones originally installed on my car. The top tab has only been bent, it's still there (not needed on Ferrari installation anyway). My original buckets also show screwdriver marks where "luigi" pried loose those spring clips.250GT wrote:But his bucket with the blue background is for outside big chrome ring cars.
like Peugeot and Citroen and PFcoupe, SWB etc but only 1960- 61.
on the 12 hour position the top lip is missing the two spring cilps (on 5 and 7 hours ) keep this chrome ring inplace.
Well when remove these it will probebly fitt.
The only difference between S.1-2 and S.3 buckets seem to be that on early cars the bucket was installed inside fender and on S.3 cars on the outside. That's why the contour of the flanges inside headlight openings is as shown on Howser's pic: when the bucket goes in, the supports (at 4,8 o'clock) and clips (at 6 and 12 o'clokc) are still visible.
Best wishes, Kare
(PS. I owe you some money, get back to my email!)
250 GT 2+2 3197/GT
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- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Hi Howser:
If you have not already, you probably want to talk to Fred Petroski at http://www.mostlybritish.com/
A few years back, he had one 250 GT car (with chassi) and very rough body. I was considering buying it, but the body was more tnan I was up to taking on in resoration time or funds.
Your car looks good.
Cheers
steve
If you have not already, you probably want to talk to Fred Petroski at http://www.mostlybritish.com/
A few years back, he had one 250 GT car (with chassi) and very rough body. I was considering buying it, but the body was more tnan I was up to taking on in resoration time or funds.
Your car looks good.
Cheers
steve
Steve Lapp
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)
- Tom Wilson
- Posts: 1153
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:01 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Contact:
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Good to see you here Matt - You have come to the right place to figure this one out. I like the Fred Petroski idea, by the way.
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Did you purchase the remains from Frank Parli or did someone else do the conversion?
1962 250 GT/E 3921, 1978 308 GTS 26845
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Thanks Steve, I will try Fred and see if he still has that car!
I gave the former owner of 25 years (Bill Bailey) a copy of the history on the car to see if any of the names on the list would jog his memory, he told me that he does not think Frank Parli ever owned the vehicle and is not sure how his name became associated with the car.
Matt
I gave the former owner of 25 years (Bill Bailey) a copy of the history on the car to see if any of the names on the list would jog his memory, he told me that he does not think Frank Parli ever owned the vehicle and is not sure how his name became associated with the car.
Matt
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
Best of luck.
Maybe the engine out of a Alfa Romeo 2600 might make a period acceptable replacement ... but then we should not be robbing Paul to save Jack, I guess. The 2600 engine is a straight 6. They would be easier to find than a Ferrari unit and substantially cheaper, and possibly not powerful enough.
Pete
Maybe the engine out of a Alfa Romeo 2600 might make a period acceptable replacement ... but then we should not be robbing Paul to save Jack, I guess. The 2600 engine is a straight 6. They would be easier to find than a Ferrari unit and substantially cheaper, and possibly not powerful enough.
Pete
Re: 1st time Ferrari Owner
How about a used 400i as a donor?