I have always wondered if one could get some cheap and uninvasive horsepower boost by pumping up the ignition voltage. These claim to put out some 15kV more than the standard coils-- and frankly they look dead ringers for the Marelli units of the 60's cars.
And, if you were to go one step further and install multi-electrode spark plugs with these higher output coils... Any thoughts?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8202/
Thanks in advance.
john
Coils
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- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Coils
PF Coupe
Re: Coils
Hi John,
More spark carried across conventional points will wear them out quicker. Some shops I know like to install a higher output coil (painted red to look like a Marelli) when they do a MSD 6A box conversion.The MSD conversion uses the point set only as a low voltage switch to operate the solid state triggering device inside the large red box. It makes sense to upgrade the output of the coil when you have a solid state switch carrying the current. If you're going to go through the trouble of the conversion, you might as well take full advantage of it.
Francois has customers that demand the MSD conversion, and will reluctantly install them, but he's a big proponent of leaving things stock. Personally, the big gains I see from solid state ignition is the ease of start up from the hotter spark, but the two usual reasons why stock Ferraris have trouble starting is poor state of tune, and a weak battery. Keeping a battery on a tender eliminates the biggest problem. I see now, you can even go solar!
Another reason I like keeping things stock is the ease of trouble shooting. As an example, we needed to check static timing on a distributor to confirm we were in the ballpark after resetting the drive dog. With conventional points, it can be done with a test light and a jumper wire. When the test light goes out as the car is rocked past AF10, you're there. I don't believe you can do the same thing with the black boxes. Has anyone tried it?
Tom
More spark carried across conventional points will wear them out quicker. Some shops I know like to install a higher output coil (painted red to look like a Marelli) when they do a MSD 6A box conversion.The MSD conversion uses the point set only as a low voltage switch to operate the solid state triggering device inside the large red box. It makes sense to upgrade the output of the coil when you have a solid state switch carrying the current. If you're going to go through the trouble of the conversion, you might as well take full advantage of it.
Francois has customers that demand the MSD conversion, and will reluctantly install them, but he's a big proponent of leaving things stock. Personally, the big gains I see from solid state ignition is the ease of start up from the hotter spark, but the two usual reasons why stock Ferraris have trouble starting is poor state of tune, and a weak battery. Keeping a battery on a tender eliminates the biggest problem. I see now, you can even go solar!
Another reason I like keeping things stock is the ease of trouble shooting. As an example, we needed to check static timing on a distributor to confirm we were in the ballpark after resetting the drive dog. With conventional points, it can be done with a test light and a jumper wire. When the test light goes out as the car is rocked past AF10, you're there. I don't believe you can do the same thing with the black boxes. Has anyone tried it?
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Re: Coils
If you dis-connect the wire to the points and use a lighted continutiy tester it works great for finding the base timing. You could probably use the tester and not even dis-connect anything. I have installed numerous MDS boxes including my own 330 S2, I think they operate great and I do use MSD coils. To date I have not had an MSD box fail on any vintage Ferrari and the points in my car have been there close to ten years.
Richard Garre
Radcliffe Motorcar Company
Richard Garre
Radcliffe Motorcar Company
Re: Coils
Can someone refresh my memory on the primary(secondary?) coil resistance needed by vintage and more modern pointfree ignitions. We all have the carefully selected Marelli 1.5 ohm resistors mounted on the Marelli coils for what purpose? i forget.
Can i leave these off of a new "hot" coil, if i install Pertronix?
Cheers
Craig
Can i leave these off of a new "hot" coil, if i install Pertronix?
Cheers
Craig
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Re: Coils
carello wrote:Can someone refresh my memory on the primary(secondary?) coil resistance needed by vintage and more modern pointfree ignitions. We all have the carefully selected Marelli 1.5 ohm resistors mounted on the Marelli coils for what purpose? i forget.
Can i leave these off of a new "hot" coil, if i install Pertronix?
Cheers
Craig
Craig,
All this investments to finisch the lawn a fewer sec. faster ?
Thanks for the stock conformation(pic)
C.
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- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Coils
Thanks Tom, on your note about added bureder on the points, why would that be? The spark at the points is a function of the 12-13 volts you get from your battery and dynamo, which stays unchanged. The spark at the spark plug gap is a function of the HV/LV transformation that takes place in the coil. These MSD coils simply have a different turn ratio. I am probably overlooking something.
An example, but in reverse order, a hairdryer would operate the same whether the utility company's voltage on the wood pole line on the street was operating at 12,000 volts or 34,000 volts.
john
An example, but in reverse order, a hairdryer would operate the same whether the utility company's voltage on the wood pole line on the street was operating at 12,000 volts or 34,000 volts.
john
PF Coupe
Re: Coils
Hi John,John Vardanian wrote:Thanks Tom, on your note about added bureder on the points, why would that be? The spark at the points is a function of the 12-13 volts you get from your battery and dynamo, which stays unchanged. The spark at the spark plug gap is a function of the HV/LV transformation that takes place in the coil. These MSD coils simply have a different turn ratio. I am probably overlooking something.
An example, but in reverse order, a hairdryer would operate the same whether the utility company's voltage on the wood pole line on the street was operating at 12,000 volts or 34,000 volts.
john
I have to do more research before I answer. I seem to recall it wasn't until transistorized ignition was it possible to go to higher voltage outputs on the coils.
I think I know the answer to Craig's question as well, but let me check first!
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Re: Coils
With MSD using stock points this test comes in handy, but I don't know if it works with a hall effect or optical trigger. Can anyone confirm this? It would seem the transistorized switch is designed to only switch off only the duration of its dwell.8339 wrote:If you dis-connect the wire to the points and use a lighted continutiy tester it works great for finding the base timing. You could probably use the tester and not even dis-connect anything. I have installed numerous MDS boxes including my own 330 S2, I think they operate great and I do use MSD coils. To date I have not had an MSD box fail on any vintage Ferrari and the points in my car have been there close to ten years.
Richard Garre
Radcliffe Motorcar Company
Tom
'63 330 America #5053