Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by 250GT »

Interresting pics of Fualfilter in the TY -diary about that very nice spider.
When you look at that rotten fixation screw there is only one explanation how this can happen :
The fuel tank(s) were always almost empty or the rubberseal in the filter is heavely dry out or worn.
normally when those two points are OK, the fuel canNOT go out that filter and no oxigene can come in.
The fuel cannot go out on the electic Fispa pump side when the membranes are OK.
a tipical example how you can ruine a car by not driving it.
The daytona has already plastic tanks- I think -so this man was lucky.
best

C.

P.S
Its only a hobby here

Fotos by TY.
Attachments
1 inch of fuel was luckly left in the filter see threads
1 inch of fuel was luckly left in the filter see threads
Daytonaspyder26.jpg (107.8 KiB) Viewed 10337 times
Daytonaspyder27.jpg
Daytonaspyder27.jpg (148.9 KiB) Viewed 10337 times
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by tyang »

Hi Cornelis,

I've never seen a large bolt rot that badly, but who knows how long it's been slowly rusting. Like I said, we had to take the whole filter assembly out to replace the bolt, so I could see the previous shop saying "that'll hold" and put the bolt back in service.

Another idea is the tank was run pretty dry and the last bit had water in it. Allowing the filter bowl to sit for a long time in water will certainly do the same thing, certainly a lot quicker than exposure to air.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by 250GT »

tyang wrote:Hi Cornelis,



Another idea is the tank was run pretty dry and the last bit had water in it.

Tom
Tom,
Hard to believe that this was all water.
a.f.a.i.k . fuel is not hydroscopic at all.
This car rest a very long time for sure.
So non drivers: pump at least every week fuel in the carbs by the electric Fispa .

C.
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by tyang »

250GT wrote:
tyang wrote:Hi Cornelis,



Another idea is the tank was run pretty dry and the last bit had water in it.

Tom
Tom,
Hard to believe that this was all water.
a.f.a.i.k . fuel is not hydroscopic at all.
This car rest a very long time for sure.
So non drivers: pump at least every week fuel in the carbs by the electric Fispa .

C.
The problem we have with adding fuel to the fuel bowls in the carbs is without driving, the fuel evaporates and leaves a white residue that clogs the passages in the carburetors!

You just have to drive the cars! I shouldn't talk however, we just got another ice storm and the driveway is covered in snow and ice! I'm begging for spring!

Tom

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by 250GT »

Tom ,
this is maybe like pathological anatomy
but how did the old filter looked like.
Here an org. filter of the 60th
It will not be the first time this one was fogotten all these years by normal shops.
When that filter is full of fuel or water this cannot happen.

C.
Attachments
blue one is from the 60th
blue one is from the 60th
IMG_0140.jpg (64.72 KiB) Viewed 10287 times
Fispa Turino L1.1584
Fispa Turino L1.1584
IMG_0141.jpg (57.39 KiB) Viewed 10287 times
giovanni44
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by giovanni44 »

It is hard to believe a bolt could rust that extensively, especially when it is sealed off from the atmosphere. Or is it the chemicals in the fuel combined with the moisture that caused this?
Would the use of products like "Heet" or others designed to absorb moisture from the gasoline help to prevent this type of occurance?

Giovanni44
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by tyang »

250GT wrote:Tom ,
this is maybe like pathological anatomy
but how did the old filter looked like.
Here an org. filter of the 60th
It will not be the first time this one was fogotten all these years by normal shops.
When that filter is full of fuel or water this cannot happen.

C.
Hi Cornelis,

No, it was a newer filter. I thought the same thing, and was disappointed that the last person who changed this filter didn't feel the same way as we did in changing out the bolt. I'm not necessarily condemning them, because you never know the circumstances.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by tyang »

giovanni44 wrote:It is hard to believe a bolt could rust that extensively, especially when it is sealed off from the atmosphere. Or is it the chemicals in the fuel combined with the moisture that caused this?
Would the use of products like "Heet" or others designed to absorb moisture from the gasoline help to prevent this type of occurance?

Giovanni44
I have the same bewilderment, that's why I posted the picture. The only way I can see that much rust forming on the exposed section of the bolt is from sitting still in water ladden fuel for a long period of time (say a year of more). That would be my guess.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
365gtc/4
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:36 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by 365gtc/4 »

tyang wrote:Hi Cornelis,

I've never seen a large bolt rot that badly,

Tom
I have ! My C4 sat for at least 15 years. When I took the rear fuel filter apart the filter itself was just rubble and the bolt was worse than that one. Lucky there are 2 more filters and a water trap between the first filter (which was the one that was rusted) and each carb fuel bowl. So the lesson is - DRIVE the cars.
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
John Vardanian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by John Vardanian »

tyang wrote:Hi Cornelis,

I've never seen a large bolt rot that badly, but who knows how long it's been slowly rusting. Like I said, we had to take the whole filter assembly out to replace the bolt, so I could see the previous shop saying "that'll hold" and put the bolt back in service.

Another idea is the tank was run pretty dry and the last bit had water in it. Allowing the filter bowl to sit for a long time in water will certainly do the same thing, certainly a lot quicker than exposure to air.

Tom
I agree, the narrowest part of the bolt must be the water band within the canister.

john
PF Coupe
250GT
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: germany/holland

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by 250GT »

After reading John(365gtc/4) post
I got the idea that this rust phenomenan on the bolt could be in THEORY a new analyse methode how long vintage Ferrari's are resting!
Carbon is incorperated in steel , so it could be possible to use the C14 carbon analyse to see how long it take this way of rottening
No joking, but most of these high dollar cars hardly see the daylight.
I lived in the same city of Mr H. Ibing, he now lives in Dusseldorf : #3809gt
I never saw his GTO( withGTE engine )or SWB( now Rosman NL) driving in the street of Bochum.
Back to Fuel:
In Europe E10 is new on the market (alcohol 15% sustitute in superfuel).
This alcohol IS pulling water, not the rest !
They warn people here who let there car resting longer than 4 weeks(winter) for this bad habbit: rust in tanks etc
I think in the USA they also have a 10-15% alcohol substition in car fuel.
The last picture shows how a Fispa bolt looks in a floating filter( like new).
I always replace the whole unit after 10K km when the back fuelfiter is changed
I dont like fuel in my hair and arms it simply easer.

best
C.
Attachments
now with Dussseldorf registration
now with Dussseldorf registration
3809GT.250GTO.001.jpg (27.95 KiB) Viewed 10168 times
this filter is 50 years old
this filter is 50 years old
IMG_0142.jpg (49.56 KiB) Viewed 10168 times
mark
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 4:26 pm
Location: seattle
Contact:

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by mark »

John, thanks for your kind words, it's great fun to spend time with like minded folks, only thing missing is a decent Parisian cafe. Right now, I am writing from a taco stand in central Mexico. The only thing Ferrari, around here is a bunch of knock off SF images plastered onto rusted out VW's.

Cornelis, as usual is right: 1. DRIVE, 2: Ethenol is bad news, it is hydroscopic and it also is not compatible with many vintage rubber products. Hoses deteriorate and so forth.

Perhaps the SWISSVAX people can provide a product that can be applied to the Bolt and protect it from moisture so that the poor owner of the lovely Daytona does not have to be burdened with driving it....

Adios amigos

Mark
69 365 gt 2+2, 12659
98 M3, 02 Porsche 996
98 550 Maranello
kare
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:34 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by kare »

I think alcohol in gas actually solves this problem, it does not contribute to it. Ethanol will make the water blend into gas and not stay in bottom of the tank/filter bowl, where the water might stay for a very long time even if you drive the car. It is the water build up that makes the bottom of the tank & filter bowl rust. It also destroyes the sender units.

So my guess is that this car was kept outside with an empty/half empty gas tank a lot. A teaspoon of condensating water a day makes a litre in 200 days - or half a gallon a year. In the old days it was recommended to always keep the car filled up to the neck to avoid this problem.
250 GT 2+2 3197/GT
giovanni44
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by giovanni44 »

If that bolt is that corroded at that location,what does the inside of the housing look like at the same relative location? All things being equal you would think that the housing should be almost eaten through also? If so why not?

Giovanni44
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Dying Daytonaspider beauty?

Post by tyang »

giovanni44 wrote:If that bolt is that corroded at that location,what does the inside of the housing look like at the same relative location? All things being equal you would think that the housing should be almost eaten through also? If so why not?

Giovanni44
Although the housing showed a little surface corrosion, it was not corroded badly. I think the difference is in the materials. The bolt is steel, and the fuel bowl is alloy.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Post Reply