water pump leakage

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250GT
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by 250GT » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:21 pm

Tom,

Perfect picture

But I cannot find the impellor.

all the best

Cornelis.
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250GT impellor Ferrrai 128F engine
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John Vardanian
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by John Vardanian » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:14 pm

Thanks Tom for the picture. Which is the spring that one retains because the new replacement ones are sub-par?
john
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tyang
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by tyang » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:08 pm

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Hi Guys,

Sorry about that. The original picture was a composite, and it was having trouble displaying. Here's the whole image.

The spring that is not strong enough is the 6th part from the right. It's inside he rubber and carbon assembly.

So far, the ones we get from Partsource seem to be working.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

zac
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by zac » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:14 pm

One of the other x-factors is that the aluminum castings tend to get very pitted over time especially if the coolant isn't changed out regularly or if the engine grounds are removed(electrolysis) so even if the seal is sealing against the impelled water can leak around the perimeter of the seal. My system that has always worked for me is to put a little hylomar type sealer on the outside if the spring loaded seals it seal to the housing and put a little grease on the suface that contacts the impeller so that until the coolant starts flowing the seal to impeller has some lubrication to keep from burning the seal. I also make sure to inspect the driveshaft very carefully to make sure there is no pitting or burrs that will tear the lip seal that seals the water section from the bearing and oil section. For the last couple years I have had good luck with the seals from GT car parts so cross our fingers that the soft spring problem is a thing if the past.

Zac
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tyang
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by tyang » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:29 pm

zac wrote:One of the other x-factors is that the aluminum castings tend to get very pitted over time especially if the coolant isn't changed out regularly or if the engine grounds are removed(electrolysis) so even if the seal is sealing against the impelled water can leak around the perimeter of the seal. My system that has always worked for me is to put a little hylomar type sealer on the outside if the spring loaded seals it seal to the housing and put a little grease on the suface that contacts the impeller so that until the coolant starts flowing the seal to impeller has some lubrication to keep from burning the seal. I also make sure to inspect the driveshaft very carefully to make sure there is no pitting or burrs that will tear the lip seal that seals the water section from the bearing and oil section. For the last couple years I have had good luck with the seals from GT car parts so cross our fingers that the soft spring problem is a thing if the past.

Zac
Great tips Zac. I also take close look at the surface attached to the back of the impeller where the carbon seal rides against. If there are imperfections, I try dress the surface flat and smooth.

If you're pulling the water pump with the engine in place, make sure you don't pull the water pump shaft all the way out because you'll have a tough (impossible) time getting it back on the timing chain! The parts I'm showing are when the pump and shaft are out of the timing chain case. If you're changing the WP seals with the engine in the car, you need to keep the shaft in place as you pull the seals out. You can decide if you want to pull the oil seal because that's the tricky one!

While assembling everything , I try to use anti seize compound on the allen bolts that hold the housing in place. It's a courtesy to the next guy that has to pull the water pump in the future!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

andrew
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by andrew » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:14 pm

Thanks for the very useful tips, everyone. My car too is peeing a bit and I'd like it garage-broken.

To clarify, it appears that with the engine still in the car (330 engine in my case) I can remove the water pump housing, impeller, and spring assembly without disturbing the water pump shaft, in order to replace the spring with a stronger version. In fact, from Tom's picture (which is arranged from right to left, from the outside in [except for the casing], I believe) it seems I can remove everything but the shaft and one set of bearings with the water pump shaft (and engine) in place. Is that the case?

Tom has (appropriately) scared me from even wanting to glance at the pump shaft, for fear of dislodging it from the timing chain, so I want to be sure...
'64 330 America s/n 5109

Al Pezzella
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by Al Pezzella » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:21 pm

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, the seal I got from Partsource was not the correct one, it was too small and it will get damaged when you tighten the impeller down. The right one for my car came from GT. My car is one of the later ones so I'm not sure of what you have, so be sure to measure the I.D. of the one you take out. If your bearings are good, and you don't remove the C clip, the shaft will not come out. Also I searched everywhere for a spring as strong as the original with no luck. I was told by the suppliers that there is only one spring available. That's when I decided to put a spacer behind the spring in order to preload it. So far it's been working great. This was after 4 attempts. Changed the seal twice, had the seat machined, installed brand new seat and it always leaked until I preloaded the spring. And believe me it was not easy to do with motor in place. Good Luck.

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tyang
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Re: water pump leakage

Post by tyang » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:59 pm

andrew wrote:Thanks for the very useful tips, everyone. My car too is peeing a bit and I'd like it garage-broken.

To clarify, it appears that with the engine still in the car (330 engine in my case) I can remove the water pump housing, impeller, and spring assembly without disturbing the water pump shaft, in order to replace the spring with a stronger version. In fact, from Tom's picture (which is arranged from right to left, from the outside in [except for the casing], I believe) it seems I can remove everything but the shaft and one set of bearings with the water pump shaft (and engine) in place. Is that the case?

Tom has (appropriately) scared me from even wanting to glance at the pump shaft, for fear of dislodging it from the timing chain, so I want to be sure...
Hi Andrew,

I'm sorry if I scared you, because that was certainly not my intent! Knowing the caveats however can save you a world of problems if I didn't tell you.

Yes, you can pull just the WP seal without too much trouble, as long as your oil seal is still good. Just don't forget to install the new WP seal with some kind of sealant where it seats in the WP housing, and don't get any on the face of the carbon seal.

Good luck!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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