Hello,
I am new to this site and am beginning to search for a vintage Ferrari. I was wondering if anyone has ever had their self/auto leveling suspension, in a vintage 365, repaired or checked. I am told it can be quite expensive to repair and am curious as to how it works, how to check one to diagnose any problems and an idea on some repair costs? I would like to comment how great and full of information this site is about these fantastic automobiles. Thank You!!!
self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Hi Cory,
First off, welcome to my website.
Koni does not rebuild the Load levelers, so any rebuild has to be done by a third party rebuilder. John Bishop, who owns a 365GTC/4 in Melbourne has rebuilt several sets, and should be able to lend some insight. There is also a retrofit kit available from the usual Ferrari suppliers that eliminates the load leveler shock, but I don't know the price.
Good luck on your search.
Tom
First off, welcome to my website.
Koni does not rebuild the Load levelers, so any rebuild has to be done by a third party rebuilder. John Bishop, who owns a 365GTC/4 in Melbourne has rebuilt several sets, and should be able to lend some insight. There is also a retrofit kit available from the usual Ferrari suppliers that eliminates the load leveler shock, but I don't know the price.
Good luck on your search.
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Cory
From your post it seems you are looking to purchase a 365 and want to know about levellers.
Firstly levellers are about the last thing you should worry about. Engine, drive train, interior, body rust etc etc etc are much more important considerations. They can be VERY expensive to fix.
Now onto levellers. They can be replaced with a coil over system for about $1200. So the car drives well but is then NOT original. There are guys who "claim" to fix them but I have heard mostly very bad reports on the so called fix. However as Tom Y said above I can fix them. I made custom high pressure seals that do work with NO modification to the internals. Koni use 21.75mm bores etc which means you can't use standard seals. Standard is 22mm. (The other guys seem to modify the internals to take modern available seals. This does not seem to work.) Anyway if a leveller is kaput the car sags at the rear end and you can see oil weeping from the leveller. They have hydraulic oil and 400psi nitrogen in them when new. I can either fix the levellers for about $1200 a pair (same as replacement coil overs but the car remains original with original paint and decals etc) or I can supply the seals (6 in total) and you can install them yourself for $300. It is easy once you know how BUT they are VERY complicated inside with about 6 O rings as well as the seals and are very tricky to pull apart. Not easy. Components within components within components. Unless you have plenty of time and are very good mechanically I would not suggest that route.
In summary don't worry about levellers until you get a car. In the scheme of things of purchasing a vintage V12 Ferrari they are absolutely a minor concern
Good luck. They are great cars to DRIVE.
John
From your post it seems you are looking to purchase a 365 and want to know about levellers.
Firstly levellers are about the last thing you should worry about. Engine, drive train, interior, body rust etc etc etc are much more important considerations. They can be VERY expensive to fix.
Now onto levellers. They can be replaced with a coil over system for about $1200. So the car drives well but is then NOT original. There are guys who "claim" to fix them but I have heard mostly very bad reports on the so called fix. However as Tom Y said above I can fix them. I made custom high pressure seals that do work with NO modification to the internals. Koni use 21.75mm bores etc which means you can't use standard seals. Standard is 22mm. (The other guys seem to modify the internals to take modern available seals. This does not seem to work.) Anyway if a leveller is kaput the car sags at the rear end and you can see oil weeping from the leveller. They have hydraulic oil and 400psi nitrogen in them when new. I can either fix the levellers for about $1200 a pair (same as replacement coil overs but the car remains original with original paint and decals etc) or I can supply the seals (6 in total) and you can install them yourself for $300. It is easy once you know how BUT they are VERY complicated inside with about 6 O rings as well as the seals and are very tricky to pull apart. Not easy. Components within components within components. Unless you have plenty of time and are very good mechanically I would not suggest that route.
In summary don't worry about levellers until you get a car. In the scheme of things of purchasing a vintage V12 Ferrari they are absolutely a minor concern
Good luck. They are great cars to DRIVE.
John
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
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jcwconsult
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:55 am
- Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Agreed on it being one of the great cars to drive.
Karl Ludvigsen called the 365 GT 2+2 "The Magnificent GT" in his contemporary road test in Sports Car Graphic when the model was new. It is still true today, given that you accept the pinnacle of technology of the late 1960s as OK to still use today for pleasure driving. Details: 0-60 under 8.0, top of 150, seats 4 if none are giants, 12.3 cu. ft. trunk for practicality, PS, PB, PW, A/C, dual heaters, 4 discs, full instrumentation, rear defroster, flow through ventilation, leather, tilt wheel, separate fresh air intake to dash, Recaro seat recliners, and a classic Pininfarina body design that is essentially a stretched version of the iconic 500 Superfast. All in a V-12 Ferrari GT that is pretty affordable, pretty reliable, owner-serviceable, and all while making wonderful V-12 music for your ears.
After 13,000 miles, I am still convinced I bought the right Ferrari - a mix of beauty and usability that is hard to match. Is a Lusso, SWB, or 275 GTB faster and better on the track or for short drives on sunny Sunday afternoons? Sure. But which one do you want to find yourself in when it is 90 degrees outside in a traffic jam half way through a 500 mile journey? And will you actually put many miles on your $300,000 to $1,000,000+ Ferrari?
I rest my case.
Karl Ludvigsen called the 365 GT 2+2 "The Magnificent GT" in his contemporary road test in Sports Car Graphic when the model was new. It is still true today, given that you accept the pinnacle of technology of the late 1960s as OK to still use today for pleasure driving. Details: 0-60 under 8.0, top of 150, seats 4 if none are giants, 12.3 cu. ft. trunk for practicality, PS, PB, PW, A/C, dual heaters, 4 discs, full instrumentation, rear defroster, flow through ventilation, leather, tilt wheel, separate fresh air intake to dash, Recaro seat recliners, and a classic Pininfarina body design that is essentially a stretched version of the iconic 500 Superfast. All in a V-12 Ferrari GT that is pretty affordable, pretty reliable, owner-serviceable, and all while making wonderful V-12 music for your ears.
After 13,000 miles, I am still convinced I bought the right Ferrari - a mix of beauty and usability that is hard to match. Is a Lusso, SWB, or 275 GTB faster and better on the track or for short drives on sunny Sunday afternoons? Sure. But which one do you want to find yourself in when it is 90 degrees outside in a traffic jam half way through a 500 mile journey? And will you actually put many miles on your $300,000 to $1,000,000+ Ferrari?
I rest my case.
Jim Walker
365 GT 2+2 #12451
365 GT 2+2 #12451
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Jim
Mark D had a great photo of his car with his daughter, wife and PILES of luggage spread out on the driveway after a big trip. It is a great photo that illustrates what a great GT cars these are. Maybe he can post it again.
Mark D had a great photo of his car with his daughter, wife and PILES of luggage spread out on the driveway after a big trip. It is a great photo that illustrates what a great GT cars these are. Maybe he can post it again.
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Thank you for the warm welcome and loads of info. I have repacked excavator cylinders before but it seems that the answer is to send it to John in Australia. I do agree with all in that these are the least of worries when looking to purchase one of these. However not knowing, prior to reading these posts, I had to wonder. Thanks again for all the responses and look forward to the search and reading these posts.
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
We've got one from the Goodwood Revival a couple of years ago that should be floating around the website somewhere too. 4 adults and lots of luggage!
I can only echo John's wise comments. After 12 or so years and about 25,000 miles the rear suspension is a lesser concern compared to body condition, engine condition, completeness of trim and fittings etc etc. Incidentally, we went the coilover route with our rear dampers, but that was before John started his rebuild options I think.
I can only echo John's wise comments. After 12 or so years and about 25,000 miles the rear suspension is a lesser concern compared to body condition, engine condition, completeness of trim and fittings etc etc. Incidentally, we went the coilover route with our rear dampers, but that was before John started his rebuild options I think.
Kelly La Velle & Andrew Stevens
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
A few owners have contacted me regarding rebuilding these load levellers. There might be a possibility that I will go to San Francisco Aug/Sept next year. One of the San Fran C4 owners can get me access to a suitable workshop, which means I could rebuild levellers whilst I am in the fair city of San Fran. So the deal would be that people would ship their levellers to San Fran, I fix em and then ship em back. This would only be suitable for USA owners unless Euro owners have some way of getting the levellers to San Fran and back for a reasonable fee. If this happens I will inform people probably say May/June next year. These units were used on Queens, C4s and 365GT4 2+2 cars with some internal variations. (Koni constantly tried to re-design the internals to fix design faults. After about 10 years they gave up and by about 1990 didn't want to know about them. No spares, no nuthin. They just got sick of failed leveller returns.) Anyway if you are thinking about getting your kaput units fixed, this might be an option. This is for Queens, C4s and 365GT4 2+2s.
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Hi John,
Have you figured out a price range for this rebuild?
Tom
Have you figured out a price range for this rebuild?
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Re: self leveling rear suspension in 365's
Tom
Around $1300. This gets them sandblasted, repainted, new bushings, new original decals, new seals, re-gassed and dyno tested. Basically as good as they were originally as I do not modify the internals at all. I will let people know when I decide to make this happen.
Around $1300. This gets them sandblasted, repainted, new bushings, new original decals, new seals, re-gassed and dyno tested. Basically as good as they were originally as I do not modify the internals at all. I will let people know when I decide to make this happen.
John
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with Windows.